Starting Pitching candidates

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:40 am

davell wrote:
toonsterwu wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Almora would seem to make sense there, they need a CF and think they have said they want to get better on defense. Don’t know if he’s enough but at least a likely starting point. Secondly, does Tyler Beede have any value anymore? He could be a nice second/third SP added this offseason.


It really comes down to how much they want to move his contract, and if they are rebuilding. If they are in rebuild mode, I could actually see starting a package with Happ as possibly a decent starting point (not suggesting Happ alone, as Shark would likely get a nice return for them). The only problem, in hypothetical scenarios, with offering OF's is that they are loaded with OF's that are close (Slater - sorta their version of Happ/Reynolds/Duggar/Shaw - should be at first). Almora might hold more intrigue in that regards, as he's clearly better CF than almost all their close guys, with the exception of maybe Duggar.



You think Shark brings back MORE than just Happ? I don't think theres any way we'd deal Happ straight up for Shark, much less give up more. He's making almost 20 mill a year. He's solid, but he's not an upper echelon pitcher either. If he's available, I can't imagine him bringing back a huge return, unless its to a team that needs his contract paid down heavily, which we don't. I don't think we'd even deal Almora for him. A deal starting with Alzolay, with another guy or two from our top 10(even with our system being down) should be plenty to get Shark. If not, then no thanks. Move on to the next.


I'm not suggesting we make a trade for Shark. I'm not ruling it out either, but in general, I think the package for Shark would take yes ... something more than Happ. Maybe Happ straight up. If you are asking if I would personally move Happ for Samardzija this winter, I would say I would definitely consider it (obviously, everything depends on market). That said, there's moves now, in our window, that the Cubs would not do otherwise, and yes, when considering this environment for the Cubs, I would probably consider it. If you are asking if I think the Cubs might consider it ... I think they would. I do. The window is now, and with their moves, they've shown they are going all-in on the window now.

Yes, I know the reasons not to, but pitching still costs, and consistent, productive, innings-eating pitching still costs. Jeff Samardzija only has 3 years left, which will likely be a nice thing compared to some FA's possibly getting 4 years. He's been reliable - 6 straight years of 200+ IP's. Yes, he's not a TOR starter, but an innings-eating middle-of-the-rotation arm is still very valuable ... and arguably, in this environment, with the usage of the pens ... perhaps even more valuable that you can turn to a starter to give you reliable innings every 5 days. Command is still strong, velocity is still there.

There isn't really a good comparable trade to look at from recent winters. We can toss comparable trades around, and there will be plus and minuses to each argument (I could say, argue that Drew Smyly netted fairly decent return, but the flip side is that Ian Happ is a far more intriguing talent than anything acquired in that trade. Dan Straily looks to have netted a great package for the Reds ... but it was fair to at least question if Luis Castillo was that good when the trade was made.

*As an aside, I'm not sure I buy the Giants moving Shark (with the usual caveat of a trade that is too good to pass up would probably not be passed up), because I think they may feel like they don't need to rebuild. I think they may feel like with Bumgarner back, some tinkering in the rotation, and a bat or two, plus some luck, and they are probably in the mix of it again. If they go that route, I think they are at the end of that rope, but it could make some sense for them.
0 x

davell
Hall of Fame
Posts: 20234
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:55 pm
x 1284
x 1733

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:00 am

Being reliable is a very good thing. 200 innings a year does matter. But, he's just not good enough to warrant giving up a 23 year old(22 most of the season)that's already OPS'd .842 in over 400 PA in the majors. His value is far more than the top 50ish prospect he went into 2017 as. He's produced at a higher level than was expected and after watching him, it should continue.

The Cubs(and others) can take a look at Cobb for the 4/48 or less it'll take to sign him, Lance Lynn at 4/60 or 5/75 and not give anything but money. Or look at the Chatwoods and other lesser pitchers that you conceivably could sign a pair for and get you those same 200 innings at very close to the same production level. And keep the young hitter that can likely be a lead piece for a much more interesting target than Shark.

I'm fine with trading for Shark, but he's not worth that kind of a return, at his contract especially. And we don't need it to be paid down.
0 x
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

davell
Hall of Fame
Posts: 20234
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:55 pm
x 1284
x 1733

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby davell » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:12 am

I'm sure the Braves or Phillies or someone is going to spend on Darvish. But, I seriously think the WS is going to keep the Dodgers away.

I've shied away from even mentioning the top end FA for us, but I'm very curious as to what his price tag winds up being now.
0 x
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:15 am

I don't know how I became the Shark defender as I've never loved him ... I feel like people are missing what a strong year he had last year. He was arguably a top 20-ish SP in baseball last year. He's probably not going to get back to those 2012-2014 levels, as he's a bit of a different pitcher now (looks like far more breaking ball usage), but he was really, really solid last year, outside of that ERA. I mean, if you remove his 2015 ... he's been one of the better starting pitchers over the last half-decade, ERA-aside. Has he been an elite starter? Outside of 2014, which was perfect timing for us, not really, but he's been really, really good, and I think people have somehow overlooked that. Now granted, you can't just lop off a year ... 2015 still existed, and he's unlikely to reverse aging ... so yeah, again, I get why not, but to absolutely rule out Happ for a potential solid mid-rotation starter? I don't know. This is a very mediocre off-season to be searching for quality pitching, with few safe options. I mean, even the top options (Tanaka/Darvish) come with some levels of risk (Darvish moreso than Tanaka, IMO. In terms of production next year, I mean ... I'd probably take Tanaka and Darvish over Shark if I had to gamble, but the chances of Tanaka leaving NY are slim, and Darvish is probably taking a monster deal that ties you into his late 30's, and leaving aside the WS ... something was off about Darvish all-year it seemed.

If Cobb is closer to a 12 AAV, which I'm not expecting, then yes, I'd go with him. I don't expect it, tbh, as I think this market is bad enough someone is going to bite the bullet, provided medicals check out, and give him something say, around 4/60, if not more. Honestly, 5/75 ... I wouldn't rule out some team forking that over for him. There's enough desperate teams out there, and he represents a potential bounce back guy. Tbh, I wouldn't touch Lance Lynn. Wouldn't touch him. Even accounting for him working his way back and the fact that he's adjusting as he's aging ... that velocity drop bothers me. I just worry that Lynn's contract will end up being an albatross.

Edit: Anyhow, personally, I think this discussion is just another off-season discussion in that I really don't see the Giants moving him. I don't think they are ready to blow it up.
0 x

davell
Hall of Fame
Posts: 20234
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:55 pm
x 1284
x 1733

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:48 am

Its the money he's still owed, in my mind. At 3/59, where's the excess value?(and I hate that term) By the way, I know you're not saying you're all in on getting Shark.

You may be right on Cobb's money, I was originally thinking the exact same as you. The market COULD see him get a huge deal. But, I'm listening to the MLBTR guys and Jeff Sullivan, who are projecting 4/48 and 3/36 respectively. Basing it on his injury history and the innings per year he's pitched. Using McCarthy as the highest anyone's ever gotta, that's comparable. We'll see. My very first inclination was 4/64, but hearing those guys thoughts has me thinking less now. Also, seeing teams current payrolls.....I just don't see lots of money being thrown around this off season.

Something else to at least consider with Shark.....He's underperformed his peripherals 4 of his 6 seasons starting and the other two years, they were basically in line. So, I wonder if some teams may look at him as a guy that's typically not going to pitch to his periphs? May be a reach, I'm not sure.....

I don't think the Giants are going to rebuild, but I do see them shuffling some things around. They could move him, just to reallocate some money in different areas. They're at 180 or so, payroll-wise already, and supposedly view Cain, as their big target. I've seen him projected at 4/76. Add that, subtract Shark, add a FA starter in the 10 range? No idea, just trying to figure out where they're headed.....They're not long from needing to blow things up.
0 x
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:06 am

I just don't view the contract as a bad thing. Sure, the excess value might not be there, but it's 3 years. There aren't many MLB teams that can't take on that sort of contract (Marlins being the only one that comes to mind off the top). Avoiding the longer term exposure of some of the FA deals isn't the worst thing.

At the end of the day, you guys may be right, and I can see the argument for why Samardzija wouldn't net a Happ-ish return (whatever that equates to in other organizations). It's just ... I have a hard time seeing that Samardzija, at that contract, is netting a Dan Straily-esque return from last winter (a highly intriguing arm). Perhaps it ends up closer to say, the Sonny Gray trade where it's several high potential prospects in return (if a trade occurred).

I think, with the GIants, it may come down to Cueto. If he wasn't coming off a down year, I'd say he absolutely should opt out and go for more security, as Cueto would be a top arm in the market ... but coming off a poor year ... I don't know if he opts out with a decent deal remaining, 4/84 at a glance. If Cueto opts in, it's not hard to see them shop Samardzija to address other holes and clear up some money. (That said, with Cain's money off the books and a core whose window is rapidly closing, they might have a tiny bit of flexibility, so I guess an argument could be made that if Cueto opted in, they might keep the rotation as is and viewing Melancon's peripherals as a positive, plug the OF hole with a backloaded deal and give it a go). There are those strange Giancarlo Stanton rumors (I think it was basically Nightengale, though) with them, which I just don't see how that happens (unless they can pick up young talent in other trades to piece together a deal).
0 x

Bull
Formerly MrWood
Posts: 3462
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 3:54 pm
Location: Not St Louis anymore!
x 44
x 228

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Bull » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:05 pm

Shark doesn’t deserve to play for the good Cubs. /onlymostlyjoking
2 x

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1941
x 1996

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:41 pm

Would something like Happ to the Braves for Folty and one of their minor league pitchers (they have so many) make sense/be fair?
0 x
Screw Pitchers

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:17 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Would something like Happ to the Braves for Folty and one of their minor league pitchers (they have so many) make sense/be fair?


may be colored by the fact that i've never loved Foltyniewicz ... but I would hope that Happ gets moved in a deal for a higher impact starter.

In general, value wise, I would hope Happ could net that type of a trade.
0 x

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1941
x 1996

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:24 pm

Darvish, Jake, Cobb and Lynn all just got a little more expensive most likely

0 x
Screw Pitchers

CaliforniaRaisin
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 88437
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Pasadena, CA
x 396
x 1658

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:27 pm

I wonder how bad his elbow is. Seemed like a no-brainer financially to opt out.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1941
x 1996

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:29 pm

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:I wonder how bad his elbow is. Seemed like a no-brainer financially to opt out.

I mean there is a tear in his elbow/arm, right? He’s just pitching through it/getting that injection?
0 x
Screw Pitchers

User avatar
Transmogrified Tiger
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 54246
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:23 pm
Location: Greater St. Louis
x 290
x 3958

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:30 pm

Tanaka is owed 3/67, was he really likely to do that much better? People are already lining up to be worried about Arrieta's performance and not giving him 9 figures and he's had much higher highs than Tanaka. He's much older so it's not a 1:1 comparison, but I do think elbow trouble and never demonstrating super high end performance would limit Tanaka's market substantially. No one who would pay him was going to view him as a TOR arm, and no one viewing him that way is gonna line up to give him 4/100 or 5/115.
0 x

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1941
x 1996

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:33 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Tanaka is owed 3/67, was he really likely to do that much better? People are already lining up to be worried about Arrieta's performance and not giving him 9 figures and he's had much higher highs than Tanaka. He's much older so it's not a 1:1 comparison, but I do think elbow trouble and never demonstrating super high end performance would limit Tanaka's market substantially. No one who would pay him was going to view him as a TOR arm, and no one viewing him that way is gonna line up to give him 4/100 or 5/115.

Yeah I think the risk way outweighed the reward for him.
0 x
Screw Pitchers

JeffH
All-Star
Posts: 3657
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:40 pm
Location: Sugar Land, TX
x 3

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby JeffH » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:41 pm

Could also be that he wanted to remain a Yankee and they told him they wouldn't be involved in the bidding if he opted out.
0 x

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:01 am

A bit surprised. Tanaka was probably in line for a big deal, or at least more security. A case could be made that he was the top arm on the market this winter, because ERA aside, he actually had a pretty decent year. I think Raisin is probably right to wonder on health here - it's hard to imagine he would've have gotten at least 4/100, if not more.

Now, JeffH's point is something to factor in - IIRC, there was talk that Tanaka simply wanted to be in New York,and that he felt like he "owed" the Yankees for this down season.

All that said, this is a big win for the Yankees in regards to getting below 197 million. This will give them a lot more flexibility, while also knowing that there's only 3 years remaining.
0 x

CaliforniaRaisin
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 88437
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Pasadena, CA
x 396
x 1658

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:06 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:I wonder how bad his elbow is. Seemed like a no-brainer financially to opt out.

I mean there is a tear in his elbow/arm, right? He’s just pitching through it/getting that injection?


Partially torn UCL. He's pitched through it for a few seasons now, which I thought woukd allay some of the fears surrounding his elbow.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1941
x 1996

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:08 am

toonsterwu wrote:
All that said, this is a big win for the Yankees in regards to getting below 197 million. This will give them a lot more flexibility, while also knowing that there's only 3 years remaining.

How is this a big win for a team looking to cut payroll/get below the tax? He’s owed 22, 22 and 23 million the next 3 years.
0 x
Screw Pitchers

User avatar
TomtheBombadil
All-Star
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 162
x 258

Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:59 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
toonsterwu wrote:
All that said, this is a big win for the Yankees in regards to getting below 197 million. This will give them a lot more flexibility, while also knowing that there's only 3 years remaining.

How is this a big win for a team looking to cut payroll/get below the tax? He’s owed 22, 22 and 23 million the next 3 years.


They still want to compete, he’s legitimately good, and pitching is always a bitch to acquire or develop.
0 x

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:28 am

More I think about it, the DIamondbacks really are a good match for us.

Our most likely trade chip - Ian Happ.

Diamodbacks likely need - Corner OF with some power (assuming they don't resign JD Martinez ... even if they did, they could still fit Happ in.)

Our most pressing need - SP.

Diamondbacks strongest area - SP, and specifically, of the most likely trade options for them (Corbin/Walker).

The problem is, their most likely trade candidate, if they do shop him, would be Patrick Corbin (with the idea that Shelby Miller might be back to slide into the 5th spot next year, and if not, they have some other options, perhaps giving Archie Bradley or Braden Shipley a look, amongst others) and Corbin is a FA after 2018. It'd be tough forking over Happ for that, so any trade might have to be expanded to succeed, which complicates things. Still, it makes a lot of sense for both sides, IMO, and an early strike would allow both organizations time and options in FA.

_____

I don't know that we match up all that well with what they might be looking for, but the Astros have pitching depth (with Verlander in the rotation, there's going to be an odd man out ... Verlander/Keuchel/McCullers/Peacock/Morton). I don't know if I particularly love Collin McHugh, but he's going to get more expensive and he seems the odd man out. Perhaps they use McHugh to try and replenish some system depth. I guess it's entirely possible they keep McHugh and move someone else.
0 x

User avatar
TomtheBombadil
All-Star
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 162
x 258

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:13 am

If the Astros were to deal a SP to the Cubs give me Musgrove.
0 x

d_money
All-Star
Posts: 1968
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:57 pm
x 23

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby d_money » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:37 pm

toonsterwu wrote:More I think about it, the DIamondbacks really are a good match for us.

Our most likely trade chip - Ian Happ.

Diamodbacks likely need - Corner OF with some power (assuming they don't resign JD Martinez ... even if they did, they could still fit Happ in.)

Our most pressing need - SP.

Diamondbacks strongest area - SP, and specifically, of the most likely trade options for them (Corbin/Walker).

The problem is, their most likely trade candidate, if they do shop him, would be Patrick Corbin (with the idea that Shelby Miller might be back to slide into the 5th spot next year, and if not, they have some other options, perhaps giving Archie Bradley or Braden Shipley a look, amongst others) and Corbin is a FA after 2018. It'd be tough forking over Happ for that, so any trade might have to be expanded to succeed, which complicates things. Still, it makes a lot of sense for both sides, IMO, and an early strike would allow both organizations time and options in FA.

_____

I don't know that we match up all that well with what they might be looking for, but the Astros have pitching depth (with Verlander in the rotation, there's going to be an odd man out ... Verlander/Keuchel/McCullers/Peacock/Morton). I don't know if I particularly love Collin McHugh, but he's going to get more expensive and he seems the odd man out. Perhaps they use McHugh to try and replenish some system depth. I guess it's entirely possible they keep McHugh and move someone else.


I don't see the FO trading a player like Happ with 5 years of control for a 1 year rental in Corbin. Seal boy? Yes.
0 x

User avatar
Transmogrified Tiger
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 54246
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:23 pm
Location: Greater St. Louis
x 290
x 3958

Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:53 pm

Merged our two SP threads since they'll be talking about filling the same roles.

I've been trying to think through some buy-low style acquisitions, the idea being that there's some reason to hope they'll be worthwhile, and would have a cheap enough acquisition cost to allow for the best possible offseason elsewhere(spending on Darvish, creating a super bullpen, etc).

One theme with all of these options is that they continue with the Cubs' philosophy of wanting to control the strike zone. We know Bosio was canned at least in part for the inability for the relievers to throw strikes, all of the Cubs rotation stalwarts had sub-8% BB%, and I'd guess that's a big reason why they don't commit to Montgomery as a rotation option.


Chris Tillman

++ Tillman is only a year removed from 4 consecutive years of average pitching. He was horrifically bad this year, but his stuff didn't really deteriorate, and finally getting him away from Baltimore's pitching environment with the AL to NL bump too could help. He's a FA so he's certainly available and he won't be expensive.

-- Tillman was a nightmare in 2016 so you're taking a pretty huge gamble on him. His vertical release point has been in slow decline for a while and he missed some time with a shoulder injury this year, although you aren't hoping that Tillman is any sort of long term answer anyway.


Kendall Graveman

++ Graveman has been a pretty average pitcher on the mound the last couple years. Even in his best case scenario he's not really someone you anticipate starting a playoff game, so he's not likely to be super expensive in trade. He's under team control for 3 years and would get a lift from moving from AL to NL.

-- Graveman missed a big chunk of this year with a shoulder injury and his vertical release point looked the part too. The 3 years of team control don't mean much if he's about to go under the knife. He's super reliant on his defense because he doesn't strike out anyone even in this environment.

Jeremy Hellickson

++ Hellickson was a 3 win pitcher just a year ago, and there aren't any huge indicators that his stuff is falling off. He has the Maddon/Hickey connection from his work as a mostly average pitcher in Tampa. He has always done a good job of BABIP suppression, and he's a FA and not likely to be an expensive one.

-- Hellickson was terrible this year, his K rate fell, his HR rate spiked, and his ground ball rate fell. An optimist might see that as something mechanical that's fixable by working with old friend Hickey, a pessimist might see decline coming early for Hellickson since he's never had overwhelming stuff.


Jordan Zimmermann

++ Zimmermann is presumably still the same human being that put up 19 fWAR in 5 years for Washington. He's still only 31, and his 2017 was pretty fluky from a BABIP perspective considering his stuff wasn't any worse than it was in 2016. Getting back to the NL and possibly working with Hickey who might be able to get more out of his 4 seamer may help. Detroit would love to be out from his contract so the player cost would be basically nil.

-- Zimmermann's stuff isn't worse than it was in 2016, but it's definitely lost a tick from his Washington days, so even with the bad luck, you're talking about being similar to his 2016 which is still solidly below average even after considering AL/NL. His contract is also a huge albatross(3/74, 22M per towards luxury tax), so you'd have to make that more palatable in some way by getting another player of interest, getting money from Detroit, or trading Heyward/Zobrist.

Erasmo Ramirez

++ Ramirez was turned around with Hickey in Tampa and put in a solid 2016. His decline seems related to dropping his 4 seamer, which would also seem to correlate to some divergence in approach between Tampa and Hickey's preference. He has 3 years of team control, would get the AL to NL bump, and while he wasn't terrible in Seattle, he wasn't really above average and Jerry DiPoto loves his trades. He's also capably served as a swing man in the case he gets supplanted in the rotation

-- Ramirez hasn't held up to a full year's workload, which isn't the worst thing in a speculative 5th starter, but worth considering. He hasn't been super valuable, but the Mariners need pitching more than anything so getting rid of Ramirez probably isn't at the top of the todo list and might not be exorbitantly cheap.
1 x

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:09 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:If the Astros were to deal a SP to the Cubs give me Musgrove.


I'd be fine about Musgrove (although don't love the fact that there's not much velocity differentiation for him), but he's cheap and controllable - they could push him to the pen.

Guess it's entirely possible that, after this post-season, they consider keeping Peacock in the pen ...
0 x

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 4235
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 am
x 24

Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:11 pm

d_money wrote:
toonsterwu wrote:More I think about it, the DIamondbacks really are a good match for us.

Our most likely trade chip - Ian Happ.

Diamodbacks likely need - Corner OF with some power (assuming they don't resign JD Martinez ... even if they did, they could still fit Happ in.)

Our most pressing need - SP.

Diamondbacks strongest area - SP, and specifically, of the most likely trade options for them (Corbin/Walker).

The problem is, their most likely trade candidate, if they do shop him, would be Patrick Corbin (with the idea that Shelby Miller might be back to slide into the 5th spot next year, and if not, they have some other options, perhaps giving Archie Bradley or Braden Shipley a look, amongst others) and Corbin is a FA after 2018. It'd be tough forking over Happ for that, so any trade might have to be expanded to succeed, which complicates things. Still, it makes a lot of sense for both sides, IMO, and an early strike would allow both organizations time and options in FA.

_____

I don't know that we match up all that well with what they might be looking for, but the Astros have pitching depth (with Verlander in the rotation, there's going to be an odd man out ... Verlander/Keuchel/McCullers/Peacock/Morton). I don't know if I particularly love Collin McHugh, but he's going to get more expensive and he seems the odd man out. Perhaps they use McHugh to try and replenish some system depth. I guess it's entirely possible they keep McHugh and move someone else.


I don't see the FO trading a player like Happ with 5 years of control for a 1 year rental in Corbin. Seal boy? Yes.


I don't think La Stella would do the trick. They should be able to get more in the open market. An expanded trade might be a consideration in this hypothetical ... something to bring back the Cubs some pen help perhaps.
0 x


Return to “Transactions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests