Starting Pitching candidates

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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:26 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:How do we get Dave Cameron into the GM's chair in Seattle:

JC: Happ for James Paxton. Who says no?

Dave Cameron: Probably the Mariners, just because they already don’t have enough pitching and have okay options at 2B/OF. But Cubs might not want to turn Happ into a guy who can’t stay healthy either. Not sure it’s unfair, just maybe not what either team is wanting to do.

He also seems to think Russell is the most likely gone by some of his comments. God I hope he’s wrong and just being his usually dumb self.


I will say that if they're going to trade Russell, it's going to be going big, like the Archer possibility he mentioned. I don't see Russell getting traded for the next version of Drew Pomeranz or w/e. With that in mind I can see that being an outcome, but I don't think Cameron's confidence/insistence is a good barometer of how likely it is.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:19 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:How do we get Dave Cameron into the GM's chair in Seattle:


He also seems to think Russell is the most likely gone by some of his comments. God I hope he’s wrong and just being his usually dumb self.


I will say that if they're going to trade Russell, it's going to be going big, like the Archer possibility he mentioned. I don't see Russell getting traded for the next version of Drew Pomeranz or w/e. With that in mind I can see that being an outcome, but I don't think Cameron's confidence/insistence is a good barometer of how likely it is.

Yeah to me if we trade Russell it has to be Archer/Stroman level pitcher and even then I think that’s just shuffling value and don’t know how it makes us that much better. I’ll trust the FO with whatever they do but I find it hard to think trading Russell is a good move for us.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:25 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:How about Glasnow as a back of the pen rehab project?

ETA: I assumed he was out of options, and kept hearing how frustrated the Pirates were with him. Both of these things may be untrue.


Glasnow’s going to be a stud starter still
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:39 am

I never saw this one during the summer:

https://www.mlbdailydish.com/2017/7/16/ ... roman-cubs

The Toronto Blue Jays were seeking a major-league player from the Chicago Cubs in exchange for starting pitcher Marcus Stroman in talks before the Cubs acquired Jose Quintana, according to Peter Gammons.


Please make it happen!
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby CubinNY » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:52 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:I never saw this one during the summer:

https://www.mlbdailydish.com/2017/7/16/ ... roman-cubs

The Toronto Blue Jays were seeking a major-league player from the Chicago Cubs in exchange for starting pitcher Marcus Stroman in talks before the Cubs acquired Jose Quintana, according to Peter Gammons.


Please make it happen!

Indeed, they can have Schwarber.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby champaignchris » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:44 pm

Is Mike Minor a viable candidate for a swing type of pick up? Become the Mike Montgomery if Montgomery starts full time.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:57 pm

champaignchris wrote:Is Mike Minor a viable candidate for a swing type of pick up? Become the Mike Montgomery if Montgomery starts full time.

Theo’s comments last week were pretty clear that Monty is gonna remain the swing guy.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:12 pm

At some of those numbers, I would rather take a flyer on a guy coming off a bad year, like Wade Miley, than giving multiple years to a middling arm. Prior to this year, Wade's 2 years in the AL weren't that far off from his NL days, when, IIRC, the Red Sox front office (not Theo, but Cherington and Co. probably had a lot of similar thought processes) thought he could be a poor man's Jon Lester.

The command bottoming out is worrisome, although one wonders if a lot of the Orioles pitchers simply didn't respond that well to Roger McDowell, so he probably won't get more than a 1 year deal, or some sort of structured 2 year deal (option, triggers, something) but taking him on a flyer, like uh ... who was it at the start of the year, Brett Anderson ... it might be better than giving multiple years to another one of those middling arms. If he struggled, you could conceivably flip him with Montgomery (splits), and go looking for a 5th starter at mid-season. Of course, this would require perhaps landing a bigger fish in the off-season, in all likelihood.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:59 am

I just prefer they go back to their 2012/2013 ways in FA this offseason and not overspend on middle tier talent like an Alex Cobb. The BOR doesn’t need anything but innings, no reason they can’t just go find another Scott Feldman-y guy or two. I like Miley because he throws a lot of innings, doesn’t have a significant arm injury history, has pitched for competitive teams, has some decent stuff and a history of getting ground balls, and won’t cost much in years or dollars. RA Dickey could even work, maybe even Wily Peralta or Hector Santiago or whoever else is a 1-2 year kind of guy...Colon for all I really care.

Trade for a TOR guy, dumpster dive for 5-8 SP depth after that...There’s also another scenario I like maybe most where they trade for Zac Britton and revamp the pen with Morrow, McGee, and a RH capable of going multiple innings. The offense is good and cheap. The team needs impact pitching. The FA SPs are a weak group but there’s some quality MRs available. Next year’s FA class is historic all over the field. The team has three higher quality SPs already, two are really cheap for what they do. Maybe the best pitching strategy this offseason is to load up the pen and pile up some SP depth so the top three guys are can coast through the regular season.

In any case the Cubs are all about how badass the lineup is without anything overwhelmingly going their way the past two years.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:21 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:I just prefer they go back to their 2012/2013 ways in FA this offseason and not overspend on middle tier talent like an Alex Cobb. The BOR doesn’t need anything but innings, no reason they can’t just go find another Scott Feldman-y guy or two.


That's exactly what Cobb is, just a bit more expensive than Feldman because it's 5 years of inflation later.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:26 am

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:I just prefer they go back to their 2012/2013 ways in FA this offseason and not overspend on middle tier talent like an Alex Cobb. The BOR doesn’t need anything but innings, no reason they can’t just go find another Scott Feldman-y guy or two.


That's exactly what Cobb is, just a bit more expensive than Feldman because it's 5 years of inflation later.


Someone mentioned Samardzija’s contract for Cobb the other day. I like Cobb but eeeeh, at that price maybe there’s other ways to spend.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:43 am

Cobb is not going to get 5/90.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:52 am

That’s true, probably more Brandon McCarthy with the inflation bump, which was already mentioned. 4 years isn’t so bad. I retract the Cobb portion of that post.
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starting Pitching Options FA 2018

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:57 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:That’s true, probably more Brandon McCarthy with the inflation bump, which was already mentioned. 4 heads isn’t so bad. I retract the Cobb portion of that post.

Yeah he’s probably somewhere between McCarthy and Leake
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:49 pm

So, it was Phil Rogers, but we have nothing else to talk about yet.....

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259816146 ... e-players/


He brought up Archer, Stroman, Manaea, Fulmer, and Nola. I've got doubts that ANY of them outside of Archer will be available(and Tampa still has others to move first), but I guess our position players are pretty damn enticing too....
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Bertz » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:42 pm

Oakland makes a lot of sense as a trade partner, even if it's not for something as big as Manaea. They have a lot of pitching at varying levels of pedigree and proximity to the majors, and not much on the positiom player side outside of 1B and 3B. I could see something big like Happ for Manaea, but just as possible is that Beane likes some of our low-ceiling guys in the high minors and we can turn a few of them into a Kendall Graveman.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:14 pm

davell wrote:So, it was Phil Rogers, but we have nothing else to talk about yet.....

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259816146 ... e-players/


He brought up Archer, Stroman, Manaea, Fulmer, and Nola. I've got doubts that ANY of them outside of Archer will be available(and Tampa still has others to move first), but I guess our position players are pretty damn enticing too....


I am fully erect for these three and semi for the other two. Fulmer would have been full pre-surgery.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby 17 Seconds » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:44 pm

charming
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby David » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:46 pm

jesus christ you weirdo
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:49 pm

I doubt this is anything more than Rogers googling names rumored to be available around this past deadline and just rehashing it “hey the Cubs say the need pitching and likely will trade and these guys were maybe available, here’s a lazy column.” I doubt he has any real info that we are linked to any of these guys (or at least any new info since the deadline).
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:14 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:I doubt this is anything more than Rogers googling names rumored to be available around this past deadline and just rehashing it “hey the Cubs say the need pitching and likely will trade and these guys were maybe available, here’s a lazy column.” I doubt he has any real info that we are linked to any of these guys (or at least any new info since the deadline).



I do agree with this, but there's just not looking like there's going to be a lot that actually is available. If 2 of this group gets dealt this off season, I'd feel pretty confident we got one of them. I'm honestly unsure of my preferences, out of this group. Fulmers medicals seem like he'd be a tough one to trade for over the off season though.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:25 pm

By the way, I kind of think whatever pitching trade we make, its going to happen right at the start of the off season.

My reason is it'd then give us the entire allotment of FA to consider still. Even potentially, a re-fill type move. Like adding Cozart, if we traded Russell. Or adding Cain, if we trade Almora(or even Schwarber perhaps).

It'd also give us the luxury of looking at the FA Starting Pitchers slightly differently. And could conceivably help allocate more to the pen as well.

Anyway, I've got a feeling that it'll happen quick. And I'd love to trade off a guy, then put some money into a solid replacement, to help keep our position player depth.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby ConstableRabbit » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:31 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:So, it was Phil Rogers, but we have nothing else to talk about yet.....

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259816146 ... e-players/


He brought up Archer, Stroman, Manaea, Fulmer, and Nola. I've got doubts that ANY of them outside of Archer will be available(and Tampa still has others to move first), but I guess our position players are pretty damn enticing too....


I am fully erect for these three and semi for the other two. Fulmer would have been full pre-surgery.

Dude, we don't care about your dong enhancement procedure.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:44 pm

davell wrote:By the way, I kind of think whatever pitching trade we make, its going to happen right at the start of the off season.

My reason is it'd then give us the entire allotment of FA to consider still. Even potentially, a re-fill type move. Like adding Cozart, if we traded Russell. Or adding Cain, if we trade Almora(or even Schwarber perhaps).

It'd also give us the luxury of looking at the FA Starting Pitchers slightly differently. And could conceivably help allocate more to the pen as well.

Anyway, I've got a feeling that it'll happen quick. And I'd love to trade off a guy, then put some money into a solid replacement, to help keep our position player depth.

I generally agree with this and think it's the smart route. Go trade for whoever you want/feel comfortable giving up for a SP very early, sign the FA(s)to replace positional depth lost in the trade (Cozart or Walker if Javy or Russell is traded, can see an argument/reasoning for any of Jay, Cain, Cargo, Seth Smith, Bautista, Carlos Gomez, to replace Happ, Schwarber or Almora), sing FA RP(s), wait out to see which FA SP markets don't materialize (maybe even Jake with the QO, like Dexter)/wait out Otani.
Last edited by Cubswin11 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:46 pm

davell wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:I doubt this is anything more than Rogers googling names rumored to be available around this past deadline and just rehashing it “hey the Cubs say the need pitching and likely will trade and these guys were maybe available, here’s a lazy column.” I doubt he has any real info that we are linked to any of these guys (or at least any new info since the deadline).



I do agree with this, but there's just not looking like there's going to be a lot that actually is available. If 2 of this group gets dealt this off season, I'd feel pretty confident we got one of them. I'm honestly unsure of my preferences, out of this group. Fulmers medicals seem like he'd be a tough one to trade for over the off season though.

Obviously acquisition cost needs to be factored in but of those named, I really only have interest in Stroman, Archer and Nola (rumored to be getting an extension so idk if he's really even going to be available). I don't really have interest in Manaea or Fulmer for various reasons (injuries being a main one and also them likely costing more than they are worth/risk I'm willing to take with their profiles).
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