Starting Pitching candidates

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CubsWin
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby CubsWin » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:32 pm

Agony and Ivy wrote:Players don’t regain velocity.

Teheran hasn't lost any velocity.

Per Fangraphs:
2014 - Fastball 92.3, Slider 82.1, Curve 74.0
2017 - Fastball 92.0, Slider 83.1, Curve 73.8

Agony and Ivy wrote:I don’t want to give up horsefeathering anything for him. There’s a reason the Braves went from considering him untouchable to listening to offers.

I respect that. Fans are divided on him and rightfully so. But more importantly, the Braves are entertaining offers for him?! I hadn't heard that. That's welcome news. From my point of view, anyway...

Then again, the real get here would be one of their better pitching prospects.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Post Count Padder » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:21 pm

CubsWin wrote:
Post Count Padder wrote:
CubsWin wrote:There are absolutely no rumors involving Julio Teheran so I don't have any idea of Atlanta's willingness to move him (although no rumors have never been an indication one way or another for this stealthy front office), but I'd love to get him.

He's coming off a down year (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) but he's one of the most reliable pitchers when it comes to providing innings, has 3 years left on his contract (his age 27-29 seasons) and the Braves match up well as trade partners considering their excess depth of pitching and the Cubs excess depth of hitting. While his performance has fluctuated a bit in his pre-prime years, he had a 3.2 fWAR in his age 23 and 25 seasons.

As with all trade discussions, it's completely dependent upon the asking price (which is impossible to gauge at this point), but the Braves just added to pitchers (Scott Kazmir and Brandon McCarthy) to their roster. Kazmir might not pitch at all if his hip isn't healthy and if he does he may come out of the bullpen. McCarthy is notoriously injury prone but if he is healthy he will be in their rotation. More importantly, the Braves already have 6 young starters who started for them last season. Teheran, Foltynewicz, Sean Newcomb, Lucas Sims, Luis Gohara and Max Fried. Of those, Teheran is the oldest and by far the most expensive with $31 million left on his contract.

On top of their depth of young pitching at the major league level, the Braves have incredible depth in the minors as well. Kolby Allard, Kyle Wright, Mike Soroka, Ian Anderson and Joey Wentz would all instantly be the Cubs top pitching prospect by far. Beyond those, Kyle Muller, Touki Toussaint and to a lesser extent Patrick Weigel, Bryce Wilson and lefty reliever AJ Minter would makes nice additions if possible. The point is they have tremendous depth and might be more willing than other teams to part with young pitching as a result.

They could certainly use a player like Ian Happ and a C like Victor Caratini. They have two catchers in their 30s under contract for one more season and the only C prospect of note they have is Drew Jackson who is below average behind the plate and no lock to hit at the major league level. He'll start this year in AA.

They also lost their top IFA signings and are barred from signing any significant ones for the next few years. So some of the Cubs lower level players like Aramis Ademan might have more value to them than most other teams.

If a package of Happ, Caratini, Ademan (plus?) can bring back Teheran, one of their starting pitching prospects and AJ Minter, I'm down.

I really like Foltynewicz but am meh on Teheran. A lot of his peripherals took a step back this year and his FIP was nearly 5. He's an interesting buy-low candidate for sure but I also don't think Atlanta would trade him for a small return and I'm not sure they would do a Marlins and sweeten the deal with a prospect.

I'm alright if you think it's a bad idea (Teheran is a guy many people are divided on), and maybe I'm higher on Happ than you are, but how is Happ (a 23-year-old switch-hitter with some positional flexibility and 6 years of control left who slugged over .500 and posted a 1.8 fWAR in just 115 games in his rookie season, Caratini who the Braves having a glaring need for, Ademan (arguably the Cubs best prospect) plus others a "small return" for a buy low candidate?

I more or less meant I wouldn't trade Happ for him. Something like Zagunis and Hatch, maybe. But I'm not high on Teheran.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Tim » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:41 pm

Have I ever mentioned how meh I am on Teheran?
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Bull » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:59 pm

Tim wrote:Have I ever mentioned how meh I am on Teheran?

Do tell!
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby CubsWin » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:51 am

Post Count Padder wrote:I more or less meant I wouldn't trade Happ for him. Something like Zagunis and Hatch, maybe. But I'm not high on Teheran.

Happ for Teheran would be a terrible trade. Of course, that's not remotely what I was suggesting...
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Regular Show » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:48 pm

Tim wrote:Have I ever mentioned how meh I am on Teheran?


Me too.

Wait, now it feels really weird saying it that way...
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:34 pm



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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby davell » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:48 pm

Wrong thread.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:00 pm

davell wrote:Dierkes just put out an article stating what I mentioned earlier. No negotiating arb between filing and hearings. This definitely shows why we're cautious right now. The good news is we may have agreements with all our guys by the 12th. Which conceivably could lead to a very lively next few days. It'd be funny if the Cubs Convention actually WAS going on for something big going down, like people always seem to expect.


the only Cubs Convention I've ever been to was '04. i was absolutely certain that Maddux was going to come out during introductions. i think everyone was.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Regular Show » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:31 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/950431207069749251



Well, I'll certainly be happy if G. Cole leaves our division and goes to the AL. I do feel bad for Pirates' fans though. They had a good run and now it's all falling apart slowly...
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:39 pm

Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/950431207069749251



Well, I'll certainly be happy if G. Cole leaves our division and goes to the AL. I do feel bad for Pirates' fans though. They had a good run and now it's all falling apart slowly...


I Pirates had an open window to compete and they basically signed AJ Burnett as their boldest move. Pirates fans should demand new ownership.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby treebird » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 am

JennieGarthAlgar wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/950431207069749251



Well, I'll certainly be happy if G. Cole leaves our division and goes to the AL. I do feel bad for Pirates' fans though. They had a good run and now it's all falling apart slowly...


I Pirates had an open window to compete and they basically signed AJ Burnett as their boldest move. Pirates fans should demand new ownership.


turns out their superpower is a lack of money

more like the got no bucs

cubs are lois loan
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:20 am

Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/950431207069749251



Well, I'll certainly be happy if G. Cole leaves our division and goes to the AL. I do feel bad for Pirates' fans though. They had a good run and now it's all falling apart slowly...

I don’t know how realistic (or if he would be worth what they’d ask or we’d want to give it up) getting Cole ever was for us but him going to the Astros is a great outcome for us. Gets him out of the division and to one of the few teams who are in on Yu or Jake (and likely willing and able to spend even $85-100 million on a pitcher).
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:56 pm

This should break some things loose, right? Astros were one of the teams in on Darvish.

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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

this feels like a great thing for the cubs on multiple fronts.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

We're gonna get Darvish for about 3/45 at this rate.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

does that trump the Cole to Yankees being "inevitable"?
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:02 pm

Badass move by the Astros if/when they pull this off. I think Cole has another gear or two in him, love the ingredients (no surgeries on a power arm with his track record and pedigree). His changeup is a pitch on the way up.
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Good move for us
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Post Count Padder » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:23 pm



Kuechel
Verlander
Cole
McCullers
Morton

And they have McHugh and Peacock. Damn.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:37 pm

McCullers and Cole will both die this year
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Post Count Padder » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:54 pm

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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:55 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:does that trump the Cole to Yankees being "inevitable"?


Post Count Padder wrote:


no, i guess it does not.
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby shnsajax » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Cole gave up 31 hr's last season. Curious as to how much of that was a fluke season going into a glorified little league park. Kuechel is probably gone after this season as well.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?p ... position=P
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Re: Starting Pitching candidates

Postby Brian707 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:55 pm

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