Starting Pitching candidates

Post Count Padder
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Post Count Padder » Thu May 25, 2017 4:18 pm

My friend who's a Phillies fan is convinced someone is gonna give them a couple of really good prospects for Jeremy Hellickson.

Hellickson has a 3.6 (!) K/9 this year. Yesterday he gave up 7 runs on 8 hits and 4 walks through 5 innings and now has a 5.49 FIP.

Probably should keep dreaming, buddy. Really surprised the Phillies didn't trade him last year at the deadline.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu May 25, 2017 8:52 pm

My guess is that no one actually buying had any serious interest in Hellickson.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby d_money » Thu May 25, 2017 9:11 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Tedward wrote:Ok, I'll throw a new name out there that hasn't been mentioned yet in the thread. The New York Mets are a dumpster fire right now. Their direction for ROS is a bit murky, but I wonder if Alderson will sell at the trade deadline. If so, I'd inquire about what it would take to get ...
Jacob deGrom. He'd be quite expensive due to the remaining team control, but I'd at least inquire about his availability.

I have no want for that dirty, injury riddled hippie. Especially for the cost.

Every time I see his hair, it reminds me of the comedian Gallagher. So, for that alone - no thanks.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri May 26, 2017 2:40 am

MLBTR wrote:Sonny Gray‘s two most recent starts for the Athletics have altered his stock in a hurry, writes ESPN’s Buster Olney. Gray’s struggles over the past 13 to 14 months have been tied not only to injury but to a (quite possibly related) drop in his swinging-strike rate, but he’s racked up swings-and-misses in his each of his past two outings thanks to a revitalized breaking pitch. Gray’s velocity spiked in his most recent start, as well — an outing in which he completed seven one-run innings and whiffed 11 Marlins hitters on just 88 pitches. Olney suggests that Gray could emerge as the top trade target on the market if this trend continues much longer, as the A’s are typically willing to deal earlier than most clubs, there are motivated buyers already (e.g. Cubs, Yankees, Astros) and Oakland may wish to cash in while Gray is looking impressive.


Gray would be pretty sweet. They have some decent depth to maybe grab another quality arm or two.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Fri May 26, 2017 5:21 am

Man horsefeathers it

Get Cahill back. Slightly damaged goods, maybe we get a discount. Tons of strikeouts and grounders. Plenty versatile.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Tryptamine » Fri May 26, 2017 2:09 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Man horsefeathers it

Get Cahill back. Slightly damaged goods, maybe we get a discount. Tons of strikeouts and grounders. Plenty versatile.


Shoulder injury at the moment.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Stannis » Fri May 26, 2017 2:39 pm

I thought Jacob deGrom was young, but he's old as dirt and got hair on his tongue, degrom.
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Re: RE: Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Fri May 26, 2017 2:42 pm

Tryptamine wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Man horsefeathers it

Get Cahill back. Slightly damaged goods, maybe we get a discount. Tons of strikeouts and grounders. Plenty versatile.


Shoulder injury at the moment.

Hence the slightly damaged goods. But they found no structural damage. I would still take the shot.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Fri May 26, 2017 4:12 pm

Stannis wrote:I thought Jacob deGrom was young, but he's old as dirt and got hair on his tongue, degrom.


Pretty sure his mom has a peg leg with a kick stand.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Donzo » Fri May 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Gotta think you could get something done with the Rays. Besides their already good staff on the MLB roster, this is their staff at AAA:

    Blake Snell
    Brent Honeywell
    Jose Deleon
    Jacob Faria
    Taylor Guerrieri

They gotta trade some pitching, they just gotta.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri May 26, 2017 6:12 pm

Donzo wrote:Gotta think you could get something done with the Rays. Besides their already good staff on the MLB roster, this is their staff at AAA:

    Blake Snell
    Brent Honeywell
    Jose Deleon
    Jacob Faria
    Taylor Guerrieri

They gotta trade some pitching, they just gotta.

I forgot what/who I was listening to or reading, they basically said the Rays are incredibly hard to deal with and they didn't see the Cubs doing anything with them for a number of reasons.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Fri May 26, 2017 6:32 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Donzo wrote:Gotta think you could get something done with the Rays. Besides their already good staff on the MLB roster, this is their staff at AAA:

    Blake Snell
    Brent Honeywell
    Jose Deleon
    Jacob Faria
    Taylor Guerrieri

They gotta trade some pitching, they just gotta.

I forgot what/who I was listening to or reading, they basically said the Rays are incredibly hard to deal with and they didn't see the Cubs doing anything with them for a number of reasons.


According to Heyman, they've been holding Maddon against us. Wondered if they still are.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri May 26, 2017 6:35 pm

davell wrote:According to Heyman, they've been holding Maddon against us.

did we say he had a beautiful body?
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Duke Silver » Fri May 26, 2017 6:51 pm

davell wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Donzo wrote:Gotta think you could get something done with the Rays. Besides their already good staff on the MLB roster, this is their staff at AAA:

    Blake Snell
    Brent Honeywell
    Jose Deleon
    Jacob Faria
    Taylor Guerrieri

They gotta trade some pitching, they just gotta.

I forgot what/who I was listening to or reading, they basically said the Rays are incredibly hard to deal with and they didn't see the Cubs doing anything with them for a number of reasons.


According to Heyman, they've been holding Maddon against us. Wondered if they still are.


Great work on their part. It sure brought this whole organization down.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby biittner77 » Fri May 26, 2017 6:57 pm

The Rays were hard to deal with even before Maddon. They likely always will be since they can't afford to pay very many star players so they pretty much have to get max value out of any trade they make.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Tryptamine » Fri May 26, 2017 8:20 pm

Didn't they ask for something absurd like Javy +2 or 3 more good prospects in return for Odorizzi or Moore?
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Fri May 26, 2017 9:26 pm

My guess at the best guys who actually get moved this deadline.....

1. Jose Quintana
2. Sonny Gray
3. Marco Estrada
4. Alex Cobb
5. Jason Vargas
6. Derek Holland
7. Jaime Garcia
8. Scott Feldman
9. Trevor Cahill
10. Jeremy Hellickson

I really hope we can find a way to get Gray. At this point though, I'd say my "quantity" idea is out the window. But I could see Happ being able to lead the deal, even if I don't want to trade him.

That said, with Happ helping currently, even if he is a lesser piece than Eloy.....Would you rather trade Happ or Eloy, if it comes down to one or the other? And if it took BOTH, would you do it?
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby toonsterwu » Fri May 26, 2017 9:34 pm

I'd trade Happ over Eloy in a second. We can afford to gamble on potential, and I'm not convinced yet that Happ had made major jumps from what he was. Eloy, if he pans out, is a higher level talent than Happ, and worth the short term gamble.

Two names to throw in there (may have been mentioned) dependent on how their teams do ...

a) Yu Darvish - An impending FA, if Texas falls out, I could really see them move him to replenish a system that's been thinned out badly.

b) Felix Hernandez - There's a lot of money left, but he's aging, and if Seattle falls out, now that they finally have a young ace in Paxton after the struggles with Hultzen/Walker, I wonder if they might move Felix. Of course, he needs to pitch well. If they ate a lot of money, it'd be at least a thought.

I'm not against trading BOTH guys ... but I can't think of many names I would do that for. It'd have to be a guy in his prime, and still cost-controlled in some fashion (whether it be through arbitration or contract).
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri May 26, 2017 9:44 pm

davell wrote:My guess at the best guys who actually get moved this deadline.....

1. Jose Quintana
2. Sonny Gray
3. Marco Estrada
4. Alex Cobb
5. Jason Vargas
6. Derek Holland
7. Jaime Garcia
8. Scott Feldman
9. Trevor Cahill
10. Jeremy Hellickson

I really hope we can find a way to get Gray. At this point though, I'd say my "quantity" idea is out the window. But I could see Happ being able to lead the deal, even if I don't want to trade him.

That said, with Happ helping currently, even if he is a lesser piece than Eloy.....Would you rather trade Happ or Eloy, if it comes down to one or the other? And if it took BOTH, would you do it?


I'd rather trade Happ than Eloy any day of the week.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri May 26, 2017 9:57 pm

Yeah, Happ way before Jimenez.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Donzo » Fri May 26, 2017 10:03 pm

Hopefully neither one... Hopefully the Cubs can wait until the off season to trade players for pitchers, then a lot of guys would be available.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Donzo » Fri May 26, 2017 10:11 pm

From what I understand, after a messy breakup, Maddon and the Rays are good.

Tampa is still Maddon's full time home and he's a big part of the community. Also, and most importantly to the Rays, he's a shill for the Rays to move to Tampa- the Rays love that.

Like others have said, the Rays are just a little greedy when it comes to trading their quality pitching.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby cubsclapp » Sat May 27, 2017 1:08 am

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the front office prefers Happ to Eloy now, and I would've thought that was crazy a few months ago.

But Happ looks like he can be an .800+ OPS hitter (I'm not saying this year, but it sure seems possible even with all of the swing and miss), and should be able to play everywhere but shortstop and catcher competently. He can already find his way into this lineup just about everyday with his ability to play all over the diamond, and he's a switch-hitter that seems to play fine vs either arm side.

Happ's ceiling may not be huge, but the player I just described is a very valuable player. Even if he's just a .750 OPS hitter, his versatility and ability to handle middle-of-the-diamond positions makes him fairly valuable still (not to mention Almora may continue to be a .600 OPS hitter vs righties and they need Happ or Heyward to play more in CF). It may be boring, but it's valuable.

Eloy is a monster, and figures to crank plenty of glorious dongs. He also seems to be much more than just a power hitter... he really looks like a good *hitter*, and his batting average has supported that. Hitters of this skill level and with this upside don't come along frequently. I would hate to lose Eloy for that reason.

But Eloy is a corner outfielder. He's going to be limited to two positions, maybe three if he could handle first base. He's also not likely to be more than average at these positions. I know he has a great arm and he made that insane play in the Futures Game. But he's already a friggin' horse and is only just 20 years old. His range is likely to be pretty average in his prime, at a corner outfield spot. I'm sure he will be better defensively than Schwarber and Soler, but still probably not "good" out there.

And Eloy doesn't walk. His walk percentage was 5.4 last year, with 3 of the 28 walks being intentional. The years before it was 6.0 and 6.1. He seems like he will probably be a 4-7% walk guy in the majors. Could he improve here? Sure, but usually the player's plate discipline is what it is at this point.

So, if Eloy is an average corner outfielder defensively, and he isn't walking, you're talking about him having to hit A LOT to be more than a 2-WAR player. A .275+ AVG and 30+ dongs annually. He sure seems capable of that, but just saying that the path to being all that valuable is difficult. It's the same conversation we have about Schwarber, but we already know Schwarber's MLB power is there, and he walks a ton.

And Happ looks to be a real contributor for a team trying to win championships right now. He can keep finding his way into this lineup and provide the roster with much more flexibility. This will also be the case next year, and the year after that. Eloy is multiple years away, and plays a position occupied by Jason Heyward (barring an opt-out). Or a position occupied by Kyle Schwarber. Or a position occupied by Anthony Rizzo. Maybe someone suffers a serious injury. Maybe Heyward goes back to hitting like Cesar Izturis. Maybe Schwarber keeps being the unluckiest hitter alive/is brutal in left field. These things happen as we've seen the last two years.

But add it all up, and I think there's a very good chance this organization prefers to keep Happ. And Eloy also likely gets you a bigger return anyway.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sat May 27, 2017 1:32 am

That's kind of why I asked that, thinking along those lines. I do think that Eloy can improve on that walk rate though, he's not a big chase guy and if he's hitting that many homers, I'd suspect he gets pitched around quite a bit.

Happ MAY even prove to be competent enough in CF, to where he can get lots of AB's there. If the FO thinks that, I think he'd be super valuable to them. Add in that Eloy likely brings a decent amount of extra value, plus is still a few years away.....I could at least see how they'd look at it as Happ helps during the current window and is therefore a better fit.....

Again, Eloy is going to be a beast and will be a better player than Happ. But, I can see how his proximity from the majors makes him the easier guy to move.

I'd really cringe though, if they move him.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sat May 27, 2017 1:52 am

I like Happ quite a bit and think he's a guy who can potentially give Zobristian production(in slightly different proportions) and positional flexibility, but that's a lot to put on him when he didn't really hit in AA and he's got 40 games above that level. We haven't seen how he's going to react to the inevitable adjustments that are coming. I've written before about adjustments he's made, but doing so in the Carolina League isn't quite the same. For an example of how sample sizes deceive, Aledmys Diaz hit about .450/.500/.800 for a month and he's been mediocre trending towards bad ever since. If Happ can play a capable CF then that's a big point in his favor, but that's far from decided at the moment.

As far as Eloy goes, he's definitely a corner OF, but there aren't many players regardless of position that have shown his ability to hit for both average and power, especially with age considered. Here's the list of minor leaguers in full season ball who hit .320 with a .200 IsoP that weren't AAAA guys:

Mitch Haniger (25 at AAA, .446 wOBA for the Mariners this year)
Yermin Sanchez (24 at Low/High A)
Eloy (19 at Low A)

It's early but you're seeing Eloy become more selective as pitchers get more afraid of him too, he's got 5 walks in 37 PAs in the early going. The only thing that gives me pause about Eloy is the multiple muscle injuries are worrisome, it's an equalizer in the other direction like Happ playing a capable CF.

So in my mind, Happ is doing good work and by virtue of being at AAA/MLB already has a non-trivial head start in contributing, but I'm still trading him before Eloy.
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