Starting Pitching candidates

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Re: RE: Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Thu May 11, 2017 4:20 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:You know how Foltynewicz makes for an interesting pickup? Second piece in a bigger Teheran trade to be a multi-inning power reliever. Taking on Kemp to add some pop to the bench and offer a platoon option for Schwarber (.662 OPS against LHP in 2017 with a 35% K rate and .138 IsoSLG, .548/41%/.129 career) could bring down the prospect cost enough to make it worthwhile.


Teheran is so inconsistent. Currently sitting with the 4th worst xFIP in the league. He's like a box of chocolates... or the pitching version of Starlin Castro. Velocity is also down but who knows what to trust these days in that regard. I don't know man, he's a pretty overrated player.

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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:What do you guys think of Andrew Triggs? Dude is 28 and slipped through the cracks, he throws his breaking balls more than half of the time, and his periphs are (and were in milb, too) excellent, with great command of the strike zone. Barely any service time, 90 innings of 3.5 xFIP.

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To me, he's kind of tailor-made for Oakland. Why would Beane trade him? They've got 5 young guys(or cheap at least) in Graveman, Triggs, Manaea, Hahn, and Cotton. My guess is Beane values that a bunch and allows for trading off Gray, who probably scares him at this point anyway.
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Re: RE: Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Thu May 11, 2017 5:10 pm

davell wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:What do you guys think of Andrew Triggs? Dude is 28 and slipped through the cracks, he throws his breaking balls more than half of the time, and his periphs are (and were in milb, too) excellent, with great command of the strike zone. Barely any service time, 90 innings of 3.5 xFIP.

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To me, he's kind of tailor-made for Oakland. Why would Beane trade him? They've got 5 young guys(or cheap at least) in Graveman, Triggs, Manaea, Hahn, and Cotton. My guess is Beane values that a bunch and allows for trading off Gray, who probably scares him at this point anyway.

Actually, your response, I basically typed out the same thing but I erased it before I posted... so I agree with your point 100%

I guess the thought process behind it is that he's old with major risk. Maybe Beane would want to sell high if he does keep this up through June.

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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Tryptamine » Thu May 11, 2017 7:42 pm

I think Ervin Santana is perfect for what we need right now. A guy to buy us time until FA 2018/2019 or a starter from or a starter from the farm emerges. He's closer to a frontline starter than a back of the rotation guy some of you refer to him as. Since July 1st 2016 Santana has posted a 2.21ERA over 150 2/3IP to go with a 3.59FIP. The Twins have Berrios ready to go and Fernando Romero not too far off as well so I can't imagine they're all that interested in hanging onto Santana if he can bring them a few nice pieces.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu May 11, 2017 7:50 pm

Tryptamine wrote:I think Ervin Santana is perfect for what we need right now. A guy to buy us time until FA 2018/2019 or a starter from or a starter from the farm emerges. He's closer to a frontline starter than a back of the rotation guy some of you refer to him as. Since July 1st 2016 Santana has posted a 2.21ERA over 150 2/3IP to go with a 3.59FIP. The Twins have Berrios ready to go and Fernando Romero not too far off as well so I can't imagine they're all that interested in hanging onto Santana if he can bring them a few nice pieces.


In that timeframe he has a 3.59 FIP and 4.07 xFIP, which is explained by a .219 (!) BABIP against. Santana is fine as a guy to give you innings and I always like AL to NL transitions, but I don't think there's another gear there. He's not someone you want starting a playoff game any more than the Lackeys and Hammels of the world. He's decent at everything but not excellent at anything.
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Re: RE: Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu May 11, 2017 9:06 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Teheran is so inconsistent. Currently sitting with the 4th worst xFIP in the league. He's like a box of chocolates... or the pitching version of Starlin Castro. Velocity is also down but who knows what to trust these days in that regard. I don't know man, he's a pretty overrated player.


He's 9 months older than Foltynewicz, a guy you're suggesting as an upside play despite his best not even being as good as Teheran's worst. Teheran's almost the full package as a pitching buy - he's healthy, he's young, he's got a wide repertoire, a wide skillset, a strong fastball, offspeeds, command, control, he's a factor on defense, he's cheap, he's locked up for 4 years....
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Tryptamine » Thu May 11, 2017 9:24 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:I think Ervin Santana is perfect for what we need right now. A guy to buy us time until FA 2018/2019 or a starter from or a starter from the farm emerges. He's closer to a frontline starter than a back of the rotation guy some of you refer to him as. Since July 1st 2016 Santana has posted a 2.21ERA over 150 2/3IP to go with a 3.59FIP. The Twins have Berrios ready to go and Fernando Romero not too far off as well so I can't imagine they're all that interested in hanging onto Santana if he can bring them a few nice pieces.


In that timeframe he has a 3.59 FIP and 4.07 xFIP, which is explained by a .219 (!) BABIP against. Santana is fine as a guy to give you innings and I always like AL to NL transitions, but I don't think there's another gear there. He's not someone you want starting a playoff game any more than the Lackeys and Hammels of the world. He's decent at everything but not excellent at anything.


Look at the quality of contact. His SOFT% is way up and his HARD and MED% are both down. His LD% is down from 21.7% to 13.6% so it's no wonder his babip is so low when people aren't making good contact against him. What has led to the drastic increase in poor contact? I have no idea, but based on the huge increase in Pull% there has to be something.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu May 11, 2017 10:00 pm

Tryptamine wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:I think Ervin Santana is perfect for what we need right now. A guy to buy us time until FA 2018/2019 or a starter from or a starter from the farm emerges. He's closer to a frontline starter than a back of the rotation guy some of you refer to him as. Since July 1st 2016 Santana has posted a 2.21ERA over 150 2/3IP to go with a 3.59FIP. The Twins have Berrios ready to go and Fernando Romero not too far off as well so I can't imagine they're all that interested in hanging onto Santana if he can bring them a few nice pieces.


In that timeframe he has a 3.59 FIP and 4.07 xFIP, which is explained by a .219 (!) BABIP against. Santana is fine as a guy to give you innings and I always like AL to NL transitions, but I don't think there's another gear there. He's not someone you want starting a playoff game any more than the Lackeys and Hammels of the world. He's decent at everything but not excellent at anything.


Look at the quality of contact. His SOFT% is way up and his HARD and MED% are both down. His LD% is down from 21.7% to 13.6% so it's no wonder his babip is so low when people aren't making good contact against him. What has led to the drastic increase in poor contact? I have no idea, but based on the huge increase in Pull% there has to be something.


I'm not saying he's not someone who can't beat his fielding independent peripherals, but Arrieta at his peak was still running a .240 BABIP. I'm pretty skeptical that Santana figured something out in his mid-30s that makes him a consistent low 3's ERA due mostly to soft contact.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sun May 14, 2017 6:44 pm

According to Keith Law, on Olney's podcast, we were heavily scouting Greinke in ST. Not just normal coverage type stuff. Something to keep an eye on moving forward.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun May 14, 2017 7:12 pm

I'm all for Greinke, this generation's Mussina. The FO does love the guy going back to his days in KC/their days in Boston. They seriously pursued him in 2012 despite where they were. Anthony Banda or Jared Miller as a second piece, please! Or just straight up pay for Pollock too?
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Duke Silver » Sun May 14, 2017 7:42 pm

Greinke's been great this year. But his velo is way down. Struggling to get over 90. He'd fit right in.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Tryptamine » Sun May 14, 2017 9:54 pm

davell wrote:According to Keith Law, on Olney's podcast, we were heavily scouting Greinke in ST. Not just normal coverage type stuff. Something to keep an eye on moving forward.


If ARI was willing to pay him down a bit to where he was 4/100ish I'd absolutely love to have him, much more than whatever type of contract we'd have to give Darvish or Cueto in the offseason to land them.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sun May 14, 2017 10:09 pm

He's interesting for numerous reasons. Trade candidate now? I'm not sure if Arizona falls out of the WC hunt to where they'd deal him mid season. But, as an offseason target, he makes plenty of sense too.

And yeah, if they'd buy him down to 4/100, it'd be really nice. I wish we had a bad contract that we could make them eat. I have no clue what it'd require as a return. My guess is they'd still expect a pretty hefty return though, even if it does give them tons of flexibility moving forward.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun May 14, 2017 10:53 pm

4/120 and higher quality but still cheap secondary pieces work better. Preferably cheap, probably a pitcher
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby cubsclapp » Sun May 14, 2017 11:27 pm

I was still in wait and see mode on Jake and the need for another legit starter (vs an Anderson replacement or something), but I now think the efforts to acquire such an arm may need to be turned up a notch (or at least if this keeps up for a few more starts).

Joe said that Jake's "stuff looked the best it has" or something after the game. 4 ER over 6 innings isn't awful, and I admittedly gave up after a few innings (and did see some 93), but I'm gonna have to disagree with him. If anything, I thought Jake was unlucky in a few of these recent starts (like even the Coors one where he primarily got blooped to death) but today it was just a lot of 91-93 right down the dick. It doesn't seem to be improving, or at least enough.

His K rate is somehow still a career-best, but he's paying for his mistakes. That's what happens when you catch the middle of the plate at 91-92 instead of 93-96. His command outside of 2015 was never great, but hitters either swung through or made very weak contact on his mistakes because they were plus velocity with wicked movement. Now when he misses, it's not much different than when a John Lackey misses.

Now, he shouldn't have a 5.44 ERA. He shouldn't have a .355 BABIP allowed. The HR rates are probably a bit unsustainable still. The results should be more in his favor than they've been, and they probably will be with the same stuff over a full season.

But I'm officially worried that this is what he is for 2017, barring some velocity jump/health/mechanical thing that it seems no one can figure out right now. And what that is, is basically a No. 4 starter.

I think that, by now, we can also put aside the theories that he's holding something back/sacrificing velocity for command/etc. By now, with the results he's been getting, he'd be throwing 93-95 instead of 91-93 if it were in him. He has too much pride and money on the line this offseason, and may be seriously costing himself like a $100 million if this keeps up.

I certainly hope he turns it around, but if we're entering June and it's the same stuff from Jake (plus considering Kyle's velo drop, Lackey's inconsistency, and Butler perhaps still an unknown despite the amazing stuff in his debut), the Cubs need to be attacking the trade market like they need another 1-3 starter (ideally of the cost-controlled variety, of course). You obviously don't throw aside the future, but they need to be aggressive, at least.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Sun May 14, 2017 11:49 pm

My honest guess is Jake winds up taking a QO from us next year(assuming it makes sense for us to even offer it, at that point). I don't see him regaining form to where anyone's getting close to 100 mill. And I think he'd bet on himself, blaming the short off season. Work out like a madman and try to get his big payday a year later at 33.

Personally, I think he's done as a TOR type and should take whatever the best multi-year deal he can get(3-45?). But, my guess is he'd take a one year, prove it deal, with Boras advising him.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby cubsclapp » Sun May 14, 2017 11:56 pm

davell wrote:My honest guess is Jake winds up taking a QO from us next year(assuming it makes sense for us to even offer it, at that point). I don't see him regaining form to where anyone's getting close to 100 mill. And I think he'd bet on himself, blaming the short off season. Work out like a madman and try to get his big payday a year later at 33.

Personally, I think he's done as a TOR type and should take whatever the best multi-year deal he can get(3-45?). But, my guess is he'd take a one year, prove it deal, with Boras advising him.


Yeah, I honestly think that's possible... but like you said, is it even worth offering him that? It's going to be 17-18 million, and, if he's in the position to accept it, it means things didn't get any better this season. Would you want to pay this guy that much money to be in the rotation next year? I know the payoff is potentially big (and if he's even 3-WAR that's like a $25 million pitcher), but it could just be paying him that much money to be a back of the rotation starter too. That would be a tough, interesting call.

In his position, I think it makes sense. That's more AAV than he'd get on the open market if this keeps up probably (who would pay this dude over $17 million a year on a multi-year deal?), and he could bet on himself and hit the market again the following offseason.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Mon May 15, 2017 12:05 am

cubsclapp wrote:
davell wrote:My honest guess is Jake winds up taking a QO from us next year(assuming it makes sense for us to even offer it, at that point). I don't see him regaining form to where anyone's getting close to 100 mill. And I think he'd bet on himself, blaming the short off season. Work out like a madman and try to get his big payday a year later at 33.

Personally, I think he's done as a TOR type and should take whatever the best multi-year deal he can get(3-45?). But, my guess is he'd take a one year, prove it deal, with Boras advising him.


Yeah, I honestly think that's possible... but like you said, is it even worth offering him that? It's going to be 17-18 million, and, if he's in the position to accept it, it means things didn't get any better this season. Would you want to pay this guy that much money to be in the rotation next year? I know the payoff is potentially big (and if he's even 3-WAR that's like a $25 million pitcher), but it could just be paying him that much money to be a back of the rotation starter too. That would be a tough, interesting call.

In his position, I think it makes sense. That's more AAV than he'd get on the open market if this keeps up probably (who would pay this dude over $17 million a year on a multi-year deal?), and he could bet on himself and hit the market again the following offseason.


Obviously, there's a bunch of factors. Starting with how he does for the rest of the year. If he pitches like a typical 4th starter? I'd say we'd offer it. If he accepts, we'd fill a spot with a one year, upside type of play....

I think there'd be a few teams willing to offer him multi-year deals, if he did have that type of season.(penalty for signing QO guys is less now too) But, it'd be far less than a guy like Jake would think he can get, with his confidence.

Perfect scenario for us is acquiring a 1-3 type of starter at the deadline. Then, I'd be much more at ease, bringing Jake back under the preface we're EXPECTING 4-5 production from him.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Derwood » Mon May 15, 2017 12:09 am

If Greinke was available for 4/100, we won't be the only team vying for him
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby cubsclapp » Mon May 15, 2017 12:09 am

davell wrote:
cubsclapp wrote:
davell wrote:My honest guess is Jake winds up taking a QO from us next year(assuming it makes sense for us to even offer it, at that point). I don't see him regaining form to where anyone's getting close to 100 mill. And I think he'd bet on himself, blaming the short off season. Work out like a madman and try to get his big payday a year later at 33.

Personally, I think he's done as a TOR type and should take whatever the best multi-year deal he can get(3-45?). But, my guess is he'd take a one year, prove it deal, with Boras advising him.


Yeah, I honestly think that's possible... but like you said, is it even worth offering him that? It's going to be 17-18 million, and, if he's in the position to accept it, it means things didn't get any better this season. Would you want to pay this guy that much money to be in the rotation next year? I know the payoff is potentially big (and if he's even 3-WAR that's like a $25 million pitcher), but it could just be paying him that much money to be a back of the rotation starter too. That would be a tough, interesting call.

In his position, I think it makes sense. That's more AAV than he'd get on the open market if this keeps up probably (who would pay this dude over $17 million a year on a multi-year deal?), and he could bet on himself and hit the market again the following offseason.


Obviously, there's a bunch of factors. Starting with how he does for the rest of the year. If he pitches like a typical 4th starter? I'd say we'd offer it. If he accepts, we'd fill a spot with a one year, upside type of play....

I think there'd be a few teams willing to offer him multi-year deals, if he did have that type of season.(penalty for signing QO guys is less now too) But, it'd be far less than a guy like Jake would think he can get, with his confidence.

Perfect scenario for us is acquiring a 1-3 type of starter at the deadline. Then, I'd be much more at ease, bringing Jake back under the preface we're EXPECTING 4-5 production from him.


Yeah, I'd be cool with that.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Mon May 15, 2017 12:30 am

In some ways(you kind of insinuated it on Twitter too), we're digging ourselves into a position where we don't really have great options to trade FROM......

Javy- Need him for defense, still has upside offensively too, but his D and being the only guy we've got, outside of Addy, that can play SS, kind of makes him untradeable.

Happ- We need his bat, at the moment.(maybe longer than that). Zobrist is older and has started slow, plus his back is acting up. There's room for AB's going forward for him.

Schwarber- I don't see this FO moving him, but his slow start isn't going to help his value and there's no way they'd deal him for less than max value.


So, who does it leave for us to grab a TOR SP with?

Eloy? Sure. But damn, I really, really, really don't want to trade him. Candelario? Sure. But, he's not a lead piece in a major deal. Cease? He's probably too far away to capitalize on yet(but its one reason I'd move him to MB quick too) Almora? At this point, if you plan on keeping Happ, you'd have to find him OF AB's. That'd move Heyward to CF. Its not ideal for our overall OF D, to have him in CF, flanked by Schwarber and Happ, but maybe they think the bats worth it? No idea. But, its not easy to see what we're dealing off, to get a true upgrade starting pitcher, that's not a rental.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby cubsclapp » Mon May 15, 2017 1:01 am

davell wrote:In some ways(you kind of insinuated it on Twitter too), we're digging ourselves into a position where we don't really have great options to trade FROM......

Javy- Need him for defense, still has upside offensively too, but his D and being the only guy we've got, outside of Addy, that can play SS, kind of makes him untradeable.

Happ- We need his bat, at the moment.(maybe longer than that). Zobrist is older and has started slow, plus his back is acting up. There's room for AB's going forward for him.

Schwarber- I don't see this FO moving him, but his slow start isn't going to help his value and there's no way they'd deal him for less than max value.


So, who does it leave for us to grab a TOR SP with?

Eloy? Sure. But damn, I really, really, really don't want to trade him. Candelario? Sure. But, he's not a lead piece in a major deal. Cease? He's probably too far away to capitalize on yet(but its one reason I'd move him to MB quick too) Almora? At this point, if you plan on keeping Happ, you'd have to find him OF AB's. That'd move Heyward to CF. Its not ideal for our overall OF D, to have him in CF, flanked by Schwarber and Happ, but maybe they think the bats worth it? No idea. But, its not easy to see what we're dealing off, to get a true upgrade starting pitcher, that's not a rental.


Yeah, I went from thinking Happ was the one they'd choose to trade to now thinking it's more likely Eloy.

And I realize it seems dumb to change the thought process like that in one month (and perhaps they felt this way all along themselves), but with how much the Cubs may actually need Happ now, I don't know how you trade him. Zobrist is going to be better than a sub-.700 OPS hitter of course, but it's possible his age is showing and he could use some days off (even if his back etc aren't issues).

Baez is even more important then for the same reason. Plus he's the only other guy that can play shortstop and we just saw how that was needed for the last few days.

Candelario is going to go in a trade, it's just a matter of when. I'm in favor of moving him sooner than later. His value is not going to be higher than it is now, and any additional MLB playing time may only expose him. So far he's looked pretty rough at the dish in the majors. I think Candelario makes sense in a deal to Toronto for example, for Estrada or Happ as a short-term solution (Happ is still owed $13 million next year as you alluded to to start the thread). But you could also use him as the second piece in a deal headlined for Eloy if you want to find that cost-controlled starter.

With how much of a priority they've made about developing arms and how much crap they've taken for their failures to do so, it's hard to see them giving up Cease in a deal. But like if it's for a cost-controlled sub-30 arm, I think it's an understandable thing, right? For a big-time arm, this is the kind of scenario it may come down to, because like you said, it probably makes even less sense to trade Baez and Happ now than it did to open the season.

I don't see finding at-bats for Happ being an issue honestly. He can play second, he can play left, he can play right. Heck, he even started 4 games in CF this year and played there a lot at Cincy IIRC. Injuries, slumps, and needed off days (like Zobrist especially) are going to keep happening. One way or another, I bet he'd start 3-4 times a week (as long as he keeps hitting, of course).

So, yeah, when you add it all up, it would seem to be Eloy as the main guy to go, which really really sucks. But he's 2-3 years away from the current team that is trying to win championships, and he probably gets you the biggest return for your biggest need: a cost-controlled arm. And you are still loaded with position players offensively. He also is limited to corner outfield, and we know they have Heyward, Schwarber, Happ, etc there for the foreseeable future. It's also a position you can generally plug in with a solid bat if you have to. It would really suck to lose him, but he's probably the guy you can most "afford" to give up in their current position, especially when he's going to bring a big return that helps your current and future club at their biggest need.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon May 15, 2017 3:15 am

davell wrote:In some ways(you kind of insinuated it on Twitter too), we're digging ourselves into a position where we don't really have great options to trade FROM......

Javy- Need him for defense, still has upside offensively too, but his D and being the only guy we've got, outside of Addy, that can play SS, kind of makes him untradeable.

Happ- We need his bat, at the moment.(maybe longer than that). Zobrist is older and has started slow, plus his back is acting up. There's room for AB's going forward for him.

Schwarber- I don't see this FO moving him, but his slow start isn't going to help his value and there's no way they'd deal him for less than max value.


So, who does it leave for us to grab a TOR SP with?

Eloy? Sure. But damn, I really, really, really don't want to trade him. Candelario? Sure. But, he's not a lead piece in a major deal. Cease? He's probably too far away to capitalize on yet(but its one reason I'd move him to MB quick too) Almora? At this point, if you plan on keeping Happ, you'd have to find him OF AB's. That'd move Heyward to CF. Its not ideal for our overall OF D, to have him in CF, flanked by Schwarber and Happ, but maybe they think the bats worth it? No idea. But, its not easy to see what we're dealing off, to get a true upgrade starting pitcher, that's not a rental.


The current situation is because Bryant is sick plus Heyward is on the DL and Zobrist and Jay are hurt. Happ is not needed and will be going back down soon. Baez is the only backup SS, but getting one of those on the roster isn't a huge obstacle. Both are absolutely available to use in a trade, although you won't sprint to give either away for next-gen Scott Feldman either.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby davell » Mon May 15, 2017 4:56 am

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
davell wrote:In some ways(you kind of insinuated it on Twitter too), we're digging ourselves into a position where we don't really have great options to trade FROM......

Javy- Need him for defense, still has upside offensively too, but his D and being the only guy we've got, outside of Addy, that can play SS, kind of makes him untradeable.

Happ- We need his bat, at the moment.(maybe longer than that). Zobrist is older and has started slow, plus his back is acting up. There's room for AB's going forward for him.

Schwarber- I don't see this FO moving him, but his slow start isn't going to help his value and there's no way they'd deal him for less than max value.


So, who does it leave for us to grab a TOR SP with?

Eloy? Sure. But damn, I really, really, really don't want to trade him. Candelario? Sure. But, he's not a lead piece in a major deal. Cease? He's probably too far away to capitalize on yet(but its one reason I'd move him to MB quick too) Almora? At this point, if you plan on keeping Happ, you'd have to find him OF AB's. That'd move Heyward to CF. Its not ideal for our overall OF D, to have him in CF, flanked by Schwarber and Happ, but maybe they think the bats worth it? No idea. But, its not easy to see what we're dealing off, to get a true upgrade starting pitcher, that's not a rental.


The current situation is because Bryant is sick plus Heyward is on the DL and Zobrist and Jay are hurt. Happ is not needed and will be going back down soon. Baez is the only backup SS, but getting one of those on the roster isn't a huge obstacle. Both are absolutely available to use in a trade, although you won't sprint to give either away for next-gen Scott Feldman either.


And we'll have more injuries. Javy is far from JUST a backup SS. His D is needed for the whole run prevention theme that's supposed to make the staff better.(unless there's concern his early season defensive ratings are going to be the norm). And Happ becomes the true supersub, if we have just one injury. There's plenty of AB's for both of them going forward.

I don't know that Happ will be going back down soon. And I'm not confident that Zobrist gets back to being his normal self either, because of age. I think both Javy and Happ are going to get plenty of AB's.

I'm aware there are certain guys you'd have to move one of them for. But, I'm not sure its worth it, if you can get a slightly lesser pitcher, without including one of them.
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Re: The Starting Pitching Trade Candidates

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon May 15, 2017 1:03 pm

davell wrote:And we'll have more injuries. Javy is far from JUST a backup SS. His D is needed for the whole run prevention theme that's supposed to make the staff better.(unless there's concern his early season defensive ratings are going to be the norm). And Happ becomes the true supersub, if we have just one injury. There's plenty of AB's for both of them going forward.

I don't know that Happ will be going back down soon. And I'm not confident that Zobrist gets back to being his normal self either, because of age. I think both Javy and Happ are going to get plenty of AB's.

I'm aware there are certain guys you'd have to move one of them for. But, I'm not sure its worth it, if you can get a slightly lesser pitcher, without including one of them.


Injuries are going to happen, but I don't think you fear trading someone because he's the contingency for if 4 of the 10 best position players are hurt/unavailable. I forgot to add that Russell also was unavailable until yesterday, so it's more like 5.

Baez is a good defender, but he's also been relatively unimpressive defensively thus far this season, both numerically and to the eye test. If he's not going to be a +15 defender then he's not someone you try to make time for. Especially since Almora is doing well enough that you can still prioritize OF defense by keeping him in the lineup and Zobrist(who is going to be fine, his peripherals are the same just with some unlucky BABIP) on the IF.
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