Cubs Offseason Rumors

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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:50 am

CubsWin wrote:
davell wrote:Its possible we literally do nothing on the position side of things.

C Willy Caratini
1B Rizzo
2B Javy Zobrist
SS Addy
3B KB Seal Boy
LF Schwarber
CF Almora Happ
RF Heyward

We've got 12 and we carry 13 pitchers quite often anyway. Add an NRI backup C and OF, we easily could be done, without doing anything.

Would the C and OF be veteran AAA depth then?


I think they'd go outside the org. And TT is right, its almost a certainty they add a vet C. But, it could be one of the guys I mentioned. Maybe they'd take an NRI(confident Geo would).

Plus, its possible they could deal for those pieces. Definitely possible on the OF, as I'd guess there's some borderline decent guy you could acquire that's still pre arb, that's not too costly.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby CubsWin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:55 am

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Honestly I want to hold onto Vic. I mean if he is a piece in that deal for the CCSP we covet, then fine. I won't shed a tear. But I think there is a really solid ML hitter there who will make like 2 mil over the next 4 seasons. If Willy were to miss time, I'd rather see what Vic can bring over a bum like Rivera whom is nothing like the version that showed up after the deadline. I like keeping Caratini and signing Jake or Darvish.

I'm okay holding on to Caratini but I'm not sure I want him being the primary back up to Contreras right now. I want a veteran game caller with solid receiving skills during a championship run. I don't care about the bat as much in this line up. Caratini's best role for this season is to be Contreras injury insurance in AAA because he's got options left and most, if not all, of the solid veteran options won't.

Let him work on his receiving and game calling in Iowa and bring him up if one of Contreras or the vet back up goes on the DL. I'm much more comfortable having say Rivera and Caratini split time starting games in case Contreras goes down than Caratini and some NRI dude like Ali Solis or a veteran they scramble to acquire in season.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Post Count Padder » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:57 am

CubsWin wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Honestly I want to hold onto Vic. I mean if he is a piece in that deal for the CCSP we covet, then fine. I won't shed a tear. But I think there is a really solid ML hitter there who will make like 2 mil over the next 4 seasons. If Willy were to miss time, I'd rather see what Vic can bring over a bum like Rivera whom is nothing like the version that showed up after the deadline. I like keeping Caratini and signing Jake or Darvish.

I'm okay holding on to Caratini but I'm not sure I want him being the primary back up to Contreras right now. I want a veteran game caller with solid receiving skills during a championship run. I don't care about the bat as much in this line up. Caratini's best role for this season is to be Contreras injury insurance in AAA because he's got options left and most, if not all, of the solid veteran options won't.

Let him work on his receiving and game calling in Iowa and bring him up if one of Contreras or the vet back up goes on the DL. I'm much more comfortable having say Rivera and Caratini split time starting games in case Contreras goes down than Caratini and some NRI dude like Ali Solis or a veteran they scramble to acquire in season.

Yeah Caratini, if not part of a trade, should get work in Iowa. He can come up if there's an injury. I'm still surprised we haven't just brought back Rene Rivera. Would be cheap enough and we know what we're getting.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby CubsWin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:00 am

davell wrote:
CubsWin wrote:
davell wrote:Its possible we literally do nothing on the position side of things.

C Willy Caratini
1B Rizzo
2B Javy Zobrist
SS Addy
3B KB Seal Boy
LF Schwarber
CF Almora Happ
RF Heyward

We've got 12 and we carry 13 pitchers quite often anyway. Add an NRI backup C and OF, we easily could be done, without doing anything.

Would the C and OF be veteran AAA depth then?


I think they'd go outside the org. And TT is right, its almost a certainty they add a vet C. But, it could be one of the guys I mentioned. Maybe they'd take an NRI(confident Geo would).

Plus, its possible they could deal for those pieces. Definitely possible on the OF, as I'd guess there's some borderline decent guy you could acquire that's still pre arb, that's not too costly.

I meant would the guys being acquired be AAA depth because you just listed 12 position players and (outside of a CF defensive specialist) I don't see a need for another OFer.

And yes, I'd go with a vet C that's an above average game caller and receiver and have Caratini start in AAA,
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:05 am

CubsWin wrote:
davell wrote:
CubsWin wrote:Would the C and OF be veteran AAA depth then?


I think they'd go outside the org. And TT is right, its almost a certainty they add a vet C. But, it could be one of the guys I mentioned. Maybe they'd take an NRI(confident Geo would).

Plus, its possible they could deal for those pieces. Definitely possible on the OF, as I'd guess there's some borderline decent guy you could acquire that's still pre arb, that's not too costly.

I meant would the guys being acquired be AAA depth because you just listed 12 position players and (outside of a CF defensive specialist) I don't see a need for another OFer.

And yes, I'd go with a vet C that's an above average game caller and receiver and have Caratini start in AAA,


I'd guess if we acquire an OF, it would be a Szczur type with an option. So he's up if we've got 12 pitchers, or an injury, but can be stashed, if needed. But, a guy with more ML experience than Zagunis. Hell, Zagunis could be who gets dealt for this fictional guy I'm not even sure exists lol.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:13 am

Post Count Padder wrote: I'm still surprised we haven't just brought back Rene Rivera. Would be cheap enough and we know what we're getting.

Could be he’s holding out for more money or a team where he could have a bigger role. Also could be we are waiting to see what route we go and exactly how much the last SP costs, if it’s cheaper than the limit to where we’d go then maybe they go give Avila a little more money with the savings since he’s a better player/left-handed to compliment Willy better.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Post Count Padder » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:48 pm

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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:44 pm

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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:54 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:


I'd do Albertos/Lange/Caratini in a second for Cole. Considering they blocked us from getting Nicasio, I'd guess they'd start with Happ. I'd probably be willing to trade him straight up or even with a little extra for Cole. Mainly because it'd allow us to do other things this off season.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:01 pm

I could be wrong, but to me the idea of trading for Gerrit Cole is more exciting than the reality of what you get when you trade for Gerrit Cole.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:08 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I could be wrong, but to me the idea of trading for Gerrit Cole is more exciting than the reality of what you get when you trade for Gerrit Cole.


I can get that sentiment for sure. But, I'd guess his next 2 years are in the same vicinity of production as Jake or Yu, at a fraction of the money and without the back end of those deals we're likely going to hate.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:17 pm

davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:


I'd do Albertos/Lange/Caratini in a second for Cole. Considering they blocked us from getting Nicasio, I'd guess they'd start with Happ. I'd probably be willing to trade him straight up or even with a little extra for Cole. Mainly because it'd allow us to do other things this off season.

I'd absolutely do that trade or do something with Happ and 1-2 of those guys.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby javy knows my name » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:28 pm

I just pictured Javy in a Pirates uniform and it was truly disgusting. I know it won't cost us him, just saying
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:32 pm

davell wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I could be wrong, but to me the idea of trading for Gerrit Cole is more exciting than the reality of what you get when you trade for Gerrit Cole.


I can get that sentiment for sure. But, I'd guess his next 2 years are in the same vicinity of production as Jake or Yu, at a fraction of the money and without the back end of those deals we're likely going to hate.


I don't think the current version of Cole is on par with Darvish especially, but he has been that guy before and it's easy to see the logic of getting back there with Hickey working with that fastball. To me he's more like a Cobb in terms of risk/reward, but given his arb salaries for 2 years if you can get him without touching the MLB roster, it's hard to call that a bad idea.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby The Logan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:38 pm

If they are also dead set on moving Harrison and McCutchen as well, Happ makes a ton of sense for them as a utility guy who can handle 2B and OF whenever needed. Honestly, a Happ centered deal for Cole makes a whole lot of sense for both teams.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:42 pm

I think Monty in a deal for him too would make some sense, with him wanting a start and us not wanting to guarantee that. They get him for 4 years and he gets to work with Searage. I wouldn't obviously include him with Happ but Monty and some prospects could be another route. Either way Monty or Happ with prospects seems to make a lot of sense assuming they are willing to deal within the division and don't put a premium on it.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby CubsWin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:27 pm

davell wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I could be wrong, but to me the idea of trading for Gerrit Cole is more exciting than the reality of what you get when you trade for Gerrit Cole.


I can get that sentiment for sure. But, I'd guess his next 2 years are in the same vicinity of production as Jake or Yu, at a fraction of the money and without the back end of those deals we're likely going to hate.

I too am leery of Cole's production over the next two seasons, but he definitely has upside. Honestly, he could be anywhere from a #1 to a #4. It's the second part of what you wrote that is most intriguing to me. Lower AAV and no backend to a deal that's likely to bite you. At the very least, Cole is an above average starter who can give you around 200 innings. At most, he's a 5 WAR top of the rotation guy. There's a lot of variance there, but if the price is close to what this website heard it is...

For what it is worth, an industry source told PBD that a potential Cubs-Pirates deal would see Pirates asking for two out of Cubs top five prospects. We’ve heard the Bucs would likely be looking at RHPs Jose Albertos (Cubs’ #2), Alex Lange (#4) and C/1B Prospect Victor Caratini (#6).

I'd jump on that in a second. With the Cubs history of drafting and developing pitchers being what it has been, the wisdom of the general philosophy of waiting to acquire pitching and the current championship window of the Cubs, how could you not make that deal?

I have no idea if this website (Pirates Breakdown) is anything other than just a fan site, but I'd suspect this deal would be done already if that rumor was close to true.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:53 pm

Question: when is the best time to extend Contreras? He’s an obvious extension candidate among the position players and IIRC he is arb eligible for the first time next year.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:19 am

You don't extend anyone right now. Not this off season, or at least not until you've filled your pitching staff out. Because it raises his number for the LT, for the upcoming season. Next year, when we're definitely going to go over is when you try and extend some of these guys.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:40 am

OK thats pretty much where I was at. Would there be any LT snags if announced/done during the summer?
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby The Logan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:26 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:Question: when is the best time to extend Contreras? He’s an obvious extension candidate among the position players and IIRC he is arb eligible for the first time next year.


His first year of arbitration is 2020.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Bertz » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:32 am

Also, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Contreras, but he's a catcher we already have locked up through his age 30 season. I'd wait until closer to crunch time before giving him guaranteed money.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:26 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:OK thats pretty much where I was at. Would there be any LT snags if announced/done during the summer?


I'm honestly not sure, but I'd guess the answer is yes. Pro-rated, I guess? At any rate, I doubt they'd do one during the season anyway.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:31 am

Yeah scratch the extension nonsense, got some good feedback there thanks.

That two top 5 prospects price for Cole would be amazing. If Happ is involved then please squeeze in McCutchen.
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Re: Cubs Offseason Rumors

Postby Named After Maddux » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:22 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:Yeah scratch the extension nonsense, got some good feedback there thanks.

That two top 5 prospects price for Cole would be amazing. If Happ is involved then please squeeze in McCutchen.


I think I’d look on going the other way if we were going to expand the deal. Happ and Montgomery along with a couple desirable prospects for Cole and Rivero. I didn’t think Rivero would be available, but he’s about to get more expensive in arbitration. A few of the Bucs blogs have mentioned he could be one to be moved.
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