Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby weis21 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:26 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Derwood wrote:Is Chatwood a guy who might be groomed as a closer later in his career?

without being able to strike anybody out and with a lot of walks? I doubt it.

counterargument: who cares bc he's 31 when this deal ends.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby CP_414 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
CP_414 wrote:
Again, i personally am not opposed to this deal. I just don't think it's a hot take to be puzzled by this. A reasonable person can look at this and say that it's not a good idea. That doesn't mean they are correct. It just means it's a fair take.

Will you think this isn't a good deal if we sign Ohtani then bring in 1 or 2 AAAA filler types (Garza, Gee, Buchholz, etc)? Or if the 6-man rotation has some legs and we add Cobb and Ohtani? Or if we trade for a SP of a Cobb level? If you think this is our only significant SP add of the offseason then I get the hate/worry but I highly doubt it is and very well could be the "worst" pitcher we add.


I don't think it's a bad deal right now. I am not saying it's a bad deal. I'm saying it's not crazy to be opposed to this.

I fully expect them to add a starting pitcher much better than Chatwood, whether it's Ohtani or someone else.
Last edited by CP_414 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby David » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 pm

basically everything about that question from derwood was weird as horsefeathers but i ignored it because i didn't want to pile on him more
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:29 pm

David wrote:basically everything about that question from derwood was weird as horsefeathers but i ignored it because i didn't want to pile on him more


David just scooting on past a chance to pile on derwood
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby weis21 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 pm

i'm just glad he got both TJS outta the way already, personally.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby CP_414 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:37 pm

David wrote:
ScrubMD wrote:
CP_414 wrote: less than 1 WAR per season


Where are you getting this?


5.1 fWAR in 6 "seasons"

but fWAR doesn't like GB guys who don't strike many out.


Do you think that's a flaw with fWAR or do you think that's a flaw with guys who don't strike many out?
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Banedon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:38 pm

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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby David » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:39 pm

CP_414 wrote:
David wrote:
ScrubMD wrote:
Where are you getting this?


5.1 fWAR in 6 "seasons"

but fWAR doesn't like GB guys who don't strike many out.


Do you think that's a flaw with fWAR or do you think that's a flaw with guys who don't strike many out?


I don't think it's a flaw with anything. I just think fWAR/FIP can't be blindly applied and FIP beaters do exist.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby CP_414 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:41 pm

David wrote:
CP_414 wrote:
David wrote:
5.1 fWAR in 6 "seasons"

but fWAR doesn't like GB guys who don't strike many out.


Do you think that's a flaw with fWAR or do you think that's a flaw with guys who don't strike many out?


I don't think it's a flaw with anything. I just think fWAR/FIP can't be blindly applied and FIP beaters do exist.


Is Chatwood a FIP beater? His ERA is pretty close to his FIP and almost identical to his xFIP for his career. It looks to me like he's getting the results that he has deserved to this point.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby David » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:43 pm

CP_414 wrote:
David wrote:
CP_414 wrote:
Do you think that's a flaw with fWAR or do you think that's a flaw with guys who don't strike many out?


I don't think it's a flaw with anything. I just think fWAR/FIP can't be blindly applied and FIP beaters do exist.


Is Chatwood a FIP beater? His ERA is pretty close to his FIP and almost identical to his xFIP for his career. It looks to me like he's getting the results that he has deserved to this point.


I didn't say that anywhere.

I was explaining the reason for the discrepancy between his fWAR and his bWAR
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:44 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:it's weird to me that people can't see the argument for this signing being puzzling, or not all that intriguing.


Agreed even as someone who doesn’t outright dislike it.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby David » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:46 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:it's weird to me that people can't see the argument for this signing being puzzling, or not all that intriguing.


Agreed even as someone who doesn’t outright dislike it.



TomtheBombadil wrote:Solid as a muh

Honestly just on pure dollars I prefer this to Cobb. Neither is an innings eater or an ace, might as well pick the cheaper one and let them coast in front of this offense for as many innings as they’ve got.


am i the only one who thinks "solid as a muh" and "don't outright dislike" mean very different things, even in the way of subjective statements that are open to interpretation?
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby CP_414 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 pm

David wrote:
CP_414 wrote:
David wrote:
I don't think it's a flaw with anything. I just think fWAR/FIP can't be blindly applied and FIP beaters do exist.


Is Chatwood a FIP beater? His ERA is pretty close to his FIP and almost identical to his xFIP for his career. It looks to me like he's getting the results that he has deserved to this point.


I didn't say that anywhere.

I was explaining the reason for the discrepancy between his fWAR and his bWAR


Gotcha. Because you said fWAR doesn't like GB pitchers who don't strike everyone out I took it as you thinking that bWAR was more accurate for a player like Chatwood. So I'm just saying that fWAR is probably correct to not like pitchers who don't strike many out and who walk a lot, but I misinterpreted what you were saying.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby DiceMan4221 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 pm

CP_414 wrote:
David wrote:
CP_414 wrote:
Do you think that's a flaw with fWAR or do you think that's a flaw with guys who don't strike many out?


I don't think it's a flaw with anything. I just think fWAR/FIP can't be blindly applied and FIP beaters do exist.


Is Chatwood a FIP beater? His ERA is pretty close to his FIP and almost identical to his xFIP for his career. It looks to me like he's getting the results that he has deserved to this point.

...did I mention he pitches in Coors?
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Bruno7481 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:49 pm

For every positive thing I find (statcast data, GB rate) there is something that offsets it (walk rate, strikeout rate). But, that is probably true for every 5th starter in the league.

Can’t really say if I like it, but I don’t hate it. How’s that for analysis?

I trust the research and analysis capability of the FO though.
Last edited by Bruno7481 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby CP_414 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:53 pm

DiceMan4221 wrote:
CP_414 wrote:
David wrote:
I don't think it's a flaw with anything. I just think fWAR/FIP can't be blindly applied and FIP beaters do exist.


Is Chatwood a FIP beater? His ERA is pretty close to his FIP and almost identical to his xFIP for his career. It looks to me like he's getting the results that he has deserved to this point.

...did I mention he pitches in Coors?


Did i mention his road peripherals? That's what this whole thing is about. The guy wrote that his road peripherals are not much better than his home ones.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby CP_414 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 pm

Bruno7481 wrote:For every positive thing I find (statcast data, GB rate) there is something that offsets it (walk rate, strikeout rate).

Can’t really say if I like it, but I don’t hate it. How’s that for analysis?

I trust the research and analysis capability of the FO though.


Agreed. I see why people are excited about his potential. I see why people think this isn't smart.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:01 pm

David wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:it's weird to me that people can't see the argument for this signing being puzzling, or not all that intriguing.


Agreed even as someone who doesn’t outright dislike it.



TomtheBombadil wrote:Solid as a muh

Honestly just on pure dollars I prefer this to Cobb. Neither is an innings eater or an ace, might as well pick the cheaper one and let them coast in front of this offense for as many innings as they’ve got.


am i the only one who thinks "solid as a muh" and "don't outright dislike" mean very different things, even in the way of subjective statements that are open to interpretation?


No, that was just more token sloppy and hurried posting.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:24 pm

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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Post Count Padder » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:30 pm

The way I see it, getting him away from Coors is a huge help, and being a ground ball pitcher helps in Wrigley. And he's an upgrade on John Lackey.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Banedon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:49 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:


That's closer to knowing his name then Javy will ever get.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:03 pm

Theo always gets his man

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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Derwood » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:11 pm

David wrote:basically everything about that question from derwood was weird as horsefeathers but i ignored it because i didn't want to pile on him more


I know nothing about him, so I was just curious. Why is that weird?
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby UMFan83 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:22 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:

I’m glad Miggy showed him the right way to tweet before he left.
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Re: Cubs sign Tyler Chatwood for 3/$38M

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:42 am

Banedon wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:


That's closer to knowing his name then Javy will ever get.


Man, with a name like that he totally just thinks he's messaging another porn star.
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