The Manny Machado Thread

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Tim
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Tim » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The more Cubs-specific news is that if Machado is available, then their relievers almost certainly are too. Britton, Brach, and possibly Givens are all fits.

I'd be checking into what it would cost to acquire Gausman. I'm a believer that he finally turned the corner mid-year last year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/kevin ... od-season/
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:29 pm

Tim wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The more Cubs-specific news is that if Machado is available, then their relievers almost certainly are too. Britton, Brach, and possibly Givens are all fits.

I'd be checking into what it would cost to acquire Gausman. I'm a believer that he finally turned the corner mid-year last year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/kevin ... od-season/

Happ, Monty and Alzolay for Gausman and Britton?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Tim » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:31 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Tim wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The more Cubs-specific news is that if Machado is available, then their relievers almost certainly are too. Britton, Brach, and possibly Givens are all fits.

I'd be checking into what it would cost to acquire Gausman. I'm a believer that he finally turned the corner mid-year last year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/kevin ... od-season/

Happ, Monty and Alzolay for Gausman and Britton?

What are we doing for CF if we trade Happ & Monty?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:36 pm

Tim wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Tim wrote:I'd be checking into what it would cost to acquire Gausman. I'm a believer that he finally turned the corner mid-year last year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/kevin ... od-season/

Happ, Monty and Alzolay for Gausman and Britton?

What are we doing for CF if we trade Happ & Monty?

Sign Jay, Jackson, Gomez, or Dyson. Rotate one of those guys with Almora mostly and Heyward occasionally out there. And what does Monty have to do with CF?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Tim » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:44 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Tim wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Happ, Monty and Alzolay for Gausman and Britton?

What are we doing for CF if we trade Happ & Monty?

Sign Jay, Jackson, Gomez, or Dyson. Rotate one of those guys with Almora and Heyward occasionally out there.

lol - I had a total brain lapse there. I even re-typed Monty, but I was thinking the trade was Happ + Almora.

There's no way I trade Monty (and Alzolay) unless I'm then going out and signing another swingman, too.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Tim » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:45 pm

Oh, and I'm totally done with the John Jay experience.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:48 pm

Tim wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Tim wrote:What are we doing for CF if we trade Happ & Monty?

Sign Jay, Jackson, Gomez, or Dyson. Rotate one of those guys with Almora and Heyward occasionally out there.

lol - I had a total brain lapse there. I even re-typed Monty, but I was thinking the trade was Happ + Almora.

There's no way I trade Monty (and Alzolay) unless I'm then going out and signing another swingman, too.

Nicasio, Liriano, Cashner, Chacin, Jesse Chavez could all fill the swingman role. Just going through the exercise of sequence of moves if that is the trade.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Bertz » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:09 am

I was cool trading Montgomery and backfillimg his swingman role coming into the winter (I even did it in my mock!), but IMO the Chatwood signing closes that door. He's too brittle, we need to have a guy you'd be comfortable making 20 starts on hand.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby squally1313 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:37 am

Sign Cobb, make Chatwood the swing man. Gausman away from the hellhole of Baltimore could be really good.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:13 am

Gausman had a really good second half. Really good. Borderline TOR good. He actually still has TOR potential ... unlike Dylan Bundy as of now. It seems fair to chalk up the early season struggles to perhaps some communications issues with a new PC and perhaps just a sign of a young guy struggling after having had some success.

Should the Orioles trade him? Yes. They should trade Gausman ... Givens ... and Schoop (along with Machado/Britton/Brach). Those three could likely net big returns ... it would hurt for a year or two, but if you can get 2-3 guys to pop, plus some internal guys to develop, Orioles could be competitive by 2020. I mean, looking at this market, Gausman could bring in an impact package. A young guy, with good pedigree, still on the rise, coming off a superb 2nd half, with 2 years of arbitration? That smells like at least one top prospect, and a couple decent guys. In this era of the pen, the raw, but talented Givens, could perhaps net them a critical asset, and Schoop ... I could see plenty of teams ponying up for him (although long term, he might be best in the OF).

I don't expect the Orioles to go all-out, even if they deal Machado. Reading into what Duquette has said, I think he's somehow hoping to trade a pen arm for a starter, sign a FA or two SP, and if they deal Machado, to perhaps get enough so that they can be competitive in 2019. I think that's a pipe dream - most of these major trades, if you get 1 guy that pops, it's almost always a decent enough outcome.

____

Total side comment: I wouldn't deal Bundy, just yet. The stuff isn't showing that well, and he really looks like ... JAG. You might as well hold onto him and see if he can find any of his old form for now. I also think that dealing Adam Jones would turn off the fan base a fair amount, so in his last year, you just ride it out with him unless he asks out.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby CubsWin » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:37 am

Tim wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The more Cubs-specific news is that if Machado is available, then their relievers almost certainly are too. Britton, Brach, and possibly Givens are all fits.

I'd be checking into what it would cost to acquire Gausman. I'm a believer that he finally turned the corner mid-year last year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/kevin ... od-season/

This.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:46 am

The White Sox???!!!???

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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Derwood » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:47 am

Do we really think the Orioles would trade him in their division?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:42 am

I think the baseball people would. I think Angelos will step in and squash it, though. Who knows, maybe Angelos has changed.

That said, the Orioles move so glacially slow on things. Based on the reports out of Baltimore, it feels like they don't think they have gotten enough yet. Problem is, barring Machado agreeing to an extension, they'll never get the mega-package they seem to think they deserve. I mean, one report that I glanced at seemed to suggest they were hoping for two from the Yankees foursome of Torres/Frazier/Sheffield/Adams. No chance is heck that the Yankees do that.

Personally, I think, barring an extension, the best they could hope for is something like (just to pick a team heavily rumored) the Phillies offering say, Scott Kingery, Franklyn Kilome and maybe a lottery ticket.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby The Logan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:17 am

Derwood wrote:Do we really think the Orioles would trade him in their division?


If they're punting 2018 I don't think they should care. Gouge one of your opponents of their prospects and then let them pay a fortune to sign him the following offseason. At least you make your opponents give you something significantly valuable instead of potentially giving that value to someone else and just getting him for money a year later.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby r_mack » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:55 am

https://theathletic.com/184555/2017/12/ ... oles-star/
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – In a surprising turn of events, the rebuilding Chicago White Sox emerged Wednesday as the most aggressive suitor for Orioles third baseman Manny Machado, according to major-league sources.

The White Sox want to land Machado and and sign him long-term before he becomes a free agent at the end of the season, sources said. However, the possibility also exists that the White Sox could flip Machado to another club — most likely the New York Yankees — and secure additional prospects for what already is one of the game’s best farm systems, if not the best.

The Orioles, who seek two young, controllable starting pitchers for Machado, also have spoken about their three-time All-Star with the Yankees, San Francisco Giants, Boston Red Sox and St. Louis Cardinals, sources said.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:08 am

That makes sense and doesn’t make sense to me, if you can extend him he’s young enough to be in primer or near prime when the farm starts producing talent and it’s probably smart to turn over some of the volatile pitching prospects they have. If he won’t extend/tells them he’s not re-signing in the offseason they can replenish at the deadline at probably 60-70 cents on the dollar for what the paid to acquire and in the mean time maybe one of the arms they trade blows up and they get a healthier/better pitching prospect(s) for him.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby XZero77 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:09 am

Yeah, the likely motivation for the Sox would have to be flipping him. I just see very little chance of him extending regardless of the team.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby r_mack » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:11 am

Cubswin11 wrote:That makes sense and doesn’t make sense to me, if you can extend him he’s young enough to be in primer or near prime when the farm starts producing talent and it’s probably smart to turn over some of the volatile pitching prospects they have. If he won’t extend/tells them he’s not re-signing in the offseason they can replenish at the deadline at probably 60-70 cents on the dollar for what the paid to acquire.

Rosenthal is claiming that they've discussed a package for Machado that would include either Lucas Giolito or Michael Kopech but not both
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:05 am

Color me utterly surprised with the White Sox. They seem at least 2-3 years away, if all goes well. Granted, perhaps they feel like they could pop sooner than that, with the AL Central having some upheaval (even the Indians will have contracts to sort out). Maybe they feel like they can convince him to stay, and know they won't get a meeting next year, so might as well bring him in now. Still, feels like the "flip him again" idea makes more sense ... but if they are offering Kopech, are they going to get better in return? Or is this a case of them using their pitching prospects to spin them into positional assets?

The Orioles are so locked in on pitching that the White Sox make a lot of sense. They could give up a couple guys and still be fairly loaded. I can't help but think Giolito is akin to Dylan Bundy - guys whose stuff might never be what it once was. Still, a package like Giolito or Kopech/Dunning/? would be as good a return as could be expected, and the White Sox would still have pitching depth. Maybe the Sox toss in Carson Fulmer and give the Orioles a closer to groom.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:19 am

More I think about it, more I wonder if Rick Hahn thinks they are closer than people think, the AL Central is a mess, and wants to take a run at Machado and see if they can surprise next year. I mean, a lineup with Machado/Garcia/Abreu/Moncada could be excellent. Still, the rotation would have some question marks, and any questions about the Indians future is about a year or two down the line - they look strong next year.

This is just a weird turn of events, IMO.

Nightengale had a tweet that said the Orioles were expecting to make the move by the end of the week, so we'll see.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby d_money » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:39 pm

If Machado wants to play SS, Anderson then has got to go to 2nd.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:41 pm

d_money wrote:If Machado wants to play SS, Anderson then has got to go to 2nd.

I don’t think you let Tim Anderson’s bum ass get in the way of making a Machado trade/decision, but that’s just me.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby squally1313 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 pm

toonsterwu wrote:More I think about it, more I wonder if Rick Hahn thinks they are closer than people think, the AL Central is a mess, and wants to take a run at Machado and see if they can surprise next year. I mean, a lineup with Machado/Garcia/Abreu/Moncada could be excellent. Still, the rotation would have some question marks, and any questions about the Indians future is about a year or two down the line - they look strong next year.

This is just a weird turn of events, IMO.

Nightengale had a tweet that said the Orioles were expecting to make the move by the end of the week, so we'll see.


Unless you think Garcia can keep up that .392 BAPIP (21 points ahead of anyone else last year) despite being 53rd in Hard contact and 75th in Line Drive right, I think you'd basically be looking at Abreu, Machado, and hoping Moncada finds a way to lower that K rate quickly.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby squally1313 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:35 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:If Machado wants to play SS, Anderson then has got to go to 2nd.

I don’t think you let Tim Anderson’s bum ass get in the way of making a Machado trade/decision, but that’s just me.

Anderson strikes me as an obvious piece that would be going back to Baltimore. Cheap, league average production that's locked up forever. He's definitely not moving Moncada off second base for the Sox.
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