Manny Machado Traded to the Dodgers

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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:58 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:If Machado wants to play SS, Anderson then has got to go to 2nd.

I don’t think you let Tim Anderson’s bum ass get in the way of making a Machado trade/decision, but that’s just me.

Anderson strikes me as an obvious piece that would be going back to Baltimore. Cheap, league average production that's locked up forever. He's definitely not moving Moncada off second base for the Sox.


Orioles want pitching, though, and it's easy for the White Sox to offer that. I also wonder about Tim Anderson perhaps going to the OF. There's some flexibility there if they do make this move.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby squally1313 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:01 pm

toonsterwu wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:I don’t think you let Tim Anderson’s bum ass get in the way of making a Machado trade/decision, but that’s just me.

Anderson strikes me as an obvious piece that would be going back to Baltimore. Cheap, league average production that's locked up forever. He's definitely not moving Moncada off second base for the Sox.


Orioles want pitching, though, and it's easy for the White Sox to offer that. I also wonder about Tim Anderson perhaps going to the OF. There's some flexibility there if they do make this move.


Unless they think Anderson is a good enough athlete to play center, there's no way his bat holds up in the outfield. I guess you could keep him at short and tell Machado he's playing third, but that's not going to help them in the negotiations.

It would take a lot more than Anderson to get Machado, but I think he's a valuable enough piece to save the Sox some prospect cost.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby d_money » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:35 pm

Machado to the WS and then they flip him to the Yankees, per NY Daily. As Angelos wouldn’t want to deal him to the Yankees directly.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby KingCubsFan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:42 pm

d_money wrote:Machado to the WS and then they flip him to the Yankees, per NY Daily. As Angelos wouldn’t want to deal him to the Yankees directly.

Is that a legit report or is that simply the result of the NY Daily thinking everything revolves around the Yankees?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:48 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:
d_money wrote:Machado to the WS and then they flip him to the Yankees, per NY Daily. As Angelos wouldn’t want to deal him to the Yankees directly.

Is that a legit report or is that simply the result of the NY Daily thinking everything revolves around the Yankees?

https://theathletic.com/184555/2017/12/ ... oles-star/
It was a legit report from Rosenthal:

The White Sox want to land Machado and sign him long-term before he becomes a free agent at the end of the season, sources said. However, the possibility also exists that the White Sox could flip Machado to another club — most likely the New York Yankees — and secure additional prospects for what already is one of the game’s best farm systems, if not the best.
...
It is not known whether the White Sox would make a deal contingent on completing a contract extension for Machado in a 72-hour negotiating window, or if the Orioles would grant such a request. It also is not known whether the White Sox would give the Orioles a verbal assurance that they intended to keep Machado and not trade him.


there's been talk of the white sox trading and then flipping him, but it makes no sense that it would be a prearranged situation where Machado winds up on the Yankees simply because Angelos wouldn't want a direct deal with the Yankees. The only thing that does make sense is if they trade for him in an attempt to extend and/or contend this year, and then trade him at the deadline if they cannot keep him and aren't in contention.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby David » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:36 pm

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The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:48 pm

This does not please me.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:54 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:This does not please me.

Use your prognostication powers and start predicting doom and gloom that he’s ending up on the Cardinals
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:59 pm

The brief reign is over.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:00 pm

The wave turned out to be a puddle.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:00 pm

Nothing will ever be good again.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:01 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:The wave turned out to be a puddle.

Should probably get Duke to get a front page article up too. This is a pretty good title
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:04 pm

Yeah, I demand a Duke article extolling the virtues of the Cardinals new 15+ WAR outfield as well.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:42 pm

A part of me would hate the Cardinals getting Machado because I tend to think their system is a bit over-rated ... a lot of decent to good guys, but I don't see much that really "jumps".

That said, the flip side is, I'd love to see their depth get hit. They'll need their depth in the coming years, particularly if they throw a boatload of cash at Machado.

Personally, I think in a year's time, we may be wondering why the Cardinals switched PIscotty for Ozuna, and that's less a knock on Ozuna and more the fact that I wonder if Piscotty bounces back now that he's close to home and near his mom.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby XZero77 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:35 pm

The Cardinals getting Machado would certainly make 2018 a lot more interesting, but it's not something that would upset me all that much because it would cost Reyes/Weaver plus, and the Cards would have a snowball's chance in hell of retaining him beyond next year.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:45 pm

I'm not willing to assume that the (crap) FO/ownership of the O's would fleece the Cards in any deal. The way they do business just wouldn't give me much confidence were I an O's fan.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby XZero77 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:54 pm

CyHawk_Cub wrote:I'm not willing to assume that the (crap) FO/ownership of the O's would fleece the Cards in any deal. The way they do business just wouldn't give me much confidence were I an O's fan.


It's hard to tell how things would go with that team. While I don't think there would be a fleecing (I don't think the Cards would allow themselves to be fleeced), if Angelos involves himself, Machado would not come cheap.

I think the likely outcome of this is that the demands end up being so unreasonable for a one-year rental that Machado isn't moved at all.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby toonsterwu » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:51 am

If the latest reports are true, the Orioles are morons (refusing to grant a window), and the White Sox may be offering simply 2 from that Cease/Hansen/Fulmer/Dunning crowd, which is a bit more understandable (reports say not offering top prospect, if Nightengale is correct, so Kopech would seem off the table ... this makes a lot more sense ... the White Sox could then flip him for other assets, as some of their 2nd tier starters have upside, but are risky).

Man, if the price isn't that high... I'd love to find a way to get into it. Dunno how we find the starters to meet the Orioles needs, though. Still ... that price seems awfully eh right now. Curious what the Cardinals offered (albeit, not formally) to not be the top offer - Hudson/Flaherty?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby biittner77 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:11 pm

toonsterwu wrote:If the latest reports are true, the Orioles are morons (refusing to grant a window), and the White Sox may be offering simply 2 from that Cease/Hansen/Fulmer/Dunning crowd, which is a bit more understandable (reports say not offering top prospect, if Nightengale is correct, so Kopech would seem off the table ... this makes a lot more sense ... the White Sox could then flip him for other assets, as some of their 2nd tier starters have upside, but are risky).

Man, if the price isn't that high... I'd love to find a way to get into it. Dunno how we find the starters to meet the Orioles needs, though. Still ... that price seems awfully eh right now. Curious what the Cardinals offered (albeit, not formally) to not be the top offer - Hudson/Flaherty?


The Orioles are in a tough spot. They can't -or won't- spend the way Boston or the Yankees will. One of those 2 teams will be favored to win their division. So the question is what do they do about it? They could be The TB Rays and be in a compete every 6 years, rebuild the other 5 cycle but that would require better scouting, better organizational philosophy and better luck.

The other "problem" for the O's is that they will always have decent attendance since Camden Yards is a cool park that people want to see. Despite that, they are still losing fans to The Nationals and Yankees because they offer hope of actually winning something.

So they can't really go the Cubs route and tank hard for 3 years because they have neither the brains nor the necessity to do so. Their version of a rebuild is to trade their best player for at least 3 valuable pieces and likely a couple lottery tickets. That's a lot for a one year rental but if they don't get that then they might as well keep Machado and try to cobble something together around him.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby The Logan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:29 pm

Woke up to this gem on the front of the ESPN MLB section

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cubs/p ... uster-deal
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby MarkMero23 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:10 pm

XZero77 wrote:The Cardinals getting Machado would certainly make 2018 a lot more interesting, but it's not something that would upset me all that much because it would cost Reyes/Weaver plus, and the Cards would have a snowball's chance in hell of retaining him beyond next year.

There's no chance either one would be given up, let alone both, in a rental deal. And if it's true that the Orioles fear Machado getting flipped to the Yankees, the White Sox really have no reason to go at him (Since they're a number of years a way from competing), which takes another team out of the equation.

From this article, the Orioles are looking at Jordan Hicks and Carson Kelly
http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roc ... sions.html
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Tedward » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:32 pm

The Logan wrote:Woke up to this gem on the front of the ESPN MLB section

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cubs/p ... uster-deal


I'd also want Gausman back as part of a much larger deal.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby CubsWin » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:40 pm

Tedward wrote:
The Logan wrote:Woke up to this gem on the front of the ESPN MLB section

http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cubs/p ... uster-deal


I'd also want Gausman back as part of a much larger deal.

Something like Russell, Alzolay and Lange for 1 year of Machado and 3 years of Gausman?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:51 pm

This is going to sound worse than I mean it, but what problem does Machado solve? He likely gives you plus defense at SS, but the Cubs get less marginal benefit from that than maybe any team in recent memory. He should be a good hitter(elite for his position), which is an improvement. But he hasn't been steady in that regard so we can't play up certainty as a benefit either. He's obviously not a long term solution either. It seems like trying to wedge Machado in simply because he's available and not because he actually improves the team in proportion with his cost. Let someone else trade for him and then pounce on Gausman/Britton, which would move the needle more for this team, have longer term benefits, and probably have similar costs.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado (and he wants to go back to SS)

Postby Tim » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:55 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:This is going to sound worse than I mean it, but what problem does Machado solve? He likely gives you plus defense at SS, but the Cubs get less marginal benefit from that than maybe any team in recent memory. He should be a good hitter(elite for his position), which is an improvement. But he hasn't been steady in that regard so we can't play up certainty as a benefit either. He's obviously not a long term solution either. It seems like trying to wedge Machado in simply because he's available and not because he actually improves the team in proportion with his cost. Let someone else trade for him and then pounce on Gausman/Britton, which would move the needle more for this team, have longer term benefits, and probably have similar costs.

I only suggested it as a "F it, let's win this year" kind of thing where I'm trading Russell to get Archer.
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