McCutchen to the Giants

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David
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McCutchen to the Giants

Postby David » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:17 pm

Appears to be done

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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 pm

They didn't have much of a choice, but the Giants are really leaning into the path the Tigers went down a few years back.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby David » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 pm

i'm looking forward to battering the pirates to an extreme like we have the reds (and like we did the pirates in 08)

100+ wins again lets go
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 pm

i don't agree with the direction necessarily, but Posey, McCutchen, and Longoria in the same lineup is fun. obviously it would have been more fun 5 years ago, but still.

i also think the giants are still pegged for 4th place, although maybe they can overtake the rockies.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:29 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:They didn't have much of a choice, but the Giants are really leaning into the path the Tigers went down a few years back.

Yeah don't blame them for trying to keep the window open (I would've gone the blow up route) but if enough things fall right that team can compete for the division or a WC. A lineup with Posey, Longoria, Belt, Crawford and McCutchen hitting 2-6 in some order could/should be pretty good (even if they are all hitting the downward side of the aging/performance curve).
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:33 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:They didn't have much of a choice, but the Giants are really leaning into the path the Tigers went down a few years back.

Yeah don't blame them for trying to keep the window open (I would've gone the blow up route) but if enough things fall right that team can compete for the division or a WC. A lineup with Posey, Longoria, Belt, Crawford and McCutchen hitting 2-6 in some order could/should be pretty good.


Heyman (grain of salt caveat) mentioned that they might still pursue Lorenzo Cain. considering they lacked any outfielders with a pulse going into this offseason, Cain + McCutchen would obviously be quite an upgrade.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby champaignchris » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:37 pm

The Giants’ long term obligations are insane.

In 2021 they’ll owe 34 year old Belt $17.2M, 35 year old Posey and Crawford $21.4M and $15.2M, and 36 year old Longoria and Cueto $18.5M and $21.8M. That’s $94.1M owed to five players where it will be a minor miracle if they get any positive performance from them at all considering their ages.

I understand why they’re going “win now” now because they are so much more screwed a few years down the road.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:27 pm

‪The Giants are trying to win the 2010 World Series again.‬
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Brian » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:46 pm

they are trying to #beliEVEN again
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:14 pm

Lmao what are the Pirates even doing?

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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby BigbadB » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:21 pm

A minor league team playing in a major league division.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:22 pm

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longhotsummer wrote:I realize now, any opposing viewpoint, will not be tolerated.

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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:25 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:https://twitter.com/rivero43/status/953020855491219456

I wonder what it would take to get him
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:26 pm

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longhotsummer wrote:I realize now, any opposing viewpoint, will not be tolerated.

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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:37 pm

I admire their willingness to gut it but this is going to be a long 2+ years that can easily last longer for Pirates fans. I don’t hate either return (individually I’ve liked Musgrove Reynolds and Crick for a while) but all have some massive likely crushing flaws and only Musgrove has had any ML success.

Some things the Pirates are hoping for at the ML level over the next two years:

- Musgrove turns into their Samardzija
- Rivero gets treated as this deadline’s Andrew Miller
- Polanco remembers how to hit
- Harrison comes out hot so they can trade him, or someone prefers him to Walker and whoever else is available in FA
- Crick seemingly randomly joins or replaces Rivero as a high velocity reliever find
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:40 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:https://twitter.com/rivero43/status/953020855491219456


Woof:

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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby David » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:43 pm

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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:51 pm

McCutchen at 1/15 doesn't have a lot of value, so the return doesn't surprise me too much. Seems like the Pirates plan is to:

- Hope a couple of their higher end prospects pan out(Polanco, Bell, Meadows, Taillon, Glasnow)
- Shore up their roster to eliminate glaring holes(getting Moran and Musgrove instead of a higher end piece for Cole)
- Use their pitching infrastructure/Searage to make their bullpen top notch. With successes like Melancon, Nicasio, Watson, and Rivero, it's easy to see the appeal of Feliz and Crick(along with the extended Rivero) helping to create a back end pen that doesn't bleed any wins.

They aren't close to being competitive in this landscape, but I think that approach can work, especially since outright tanking or getting higher ceiling prospects further away hurts a lot at the box office. And extra especially since they've shown an ability to get the most out of pitchers so they aren't as screwed by being unable to sign a Darvish or Lester.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby toonsterwu » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:54 pm

For one year of McCutchen, that's a pretty decent return. I'm not much for Crick ... I think he could make a decent power arm in time, and perhaps has late inning potential, but I don't buy him as a starter. Reynolds is one of those guys for a rebuilding team, it's fine. He's not great in any areas, but he's a solid OF who can start on a rebuilding club. All in all, for one year of McCutchen, not bad.

As for the Giants, this move ... is fine. They give up two average, at best, guys, for a shot to win now. After you make the Longoria trade and take on that salary, you might as well double-down with a move like this if possible, so okay. It's a fine line they are walking - hoping everyone stays healthy, hoping people don't regress, and hoping enough of your young kids develop to supplement things somehow mid-season. It could work for one more year, though.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 am

You guys will enjoy it so I will say it - I still refer to Glasnow as tall future Chris Archer. Their control as prospects throws/threw the scent off but I believe in guys who combine healthy power arms with starter workloads and the kind of K, H, and HRs rates these two did at the ages they have.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby Regular Show » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:53 am

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:Lmao what are the Pirates even doing?



That's a pretty crappy return honestly for a player on a 1-year deal. I probably would've just held on to him, and maybe try moving him at the trade deadline this upcoming season. Then again, JD Martinez was killing it last year and the Tigers still received a horsefeathers return for him. I have no idea why competitive teams didn't offer more for him at the trade deadline...
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:02 am

Regular Show wrote:That's a pretty crappy return honestly for a player on a 1-year deal. I probably would've just held on to him, and maybe try moving him at the trade deadline this upcoming season. Then again, JD Martinez was killing it last year and the Tigers still received a horsefeathers return for him. I no idea why competitive teams didn't offer more for him at the trade deadline...


Given the hints at totally not collusion this offseason, posssible a play at nudging/reseting/adjusting/readjusting market prices? Can’t let the world know these guys, an upcoming FA with without a QO no less, are actually valuable as a larger % of rosters become increasingly fungible.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby toonsterwu » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:18 am

Okay, color me surprised at so many people thinking it's a crap return for McCutchen. What did people expect for him? I mean, relatively speaking, I think the Gerrit Cole trade was a worse return, and that one was probably passable (although most reviews paint it as a general negative, which I buy).

But this? For a guy on one year, coming off a "bounce back season", but still showing all the signs of decline? This seems reasonable - two average prospects with some shot at roles in the majors, but don't look like guys who will be key cornerstones or top players, and more likely, role players/end of 25 man guys, if they stick in the majors. This ... seems reasonable to me.
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Re: McCutchen to the Giants

Postby BigbadB » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:59 pm

toonsterwu wrote:Okay, color me surprised at so many people thinking it's a crap return for McCutchen. What did people expect for him? I mean, relatively speaking, I think the Gerrit Cole trade was a worse return, and that one was probably passable (although most reviews paint it as a general negative, which I buy).

But this? For a guy on one year, coming off a "bounce back season", but still showing all the signs of decline? This seems reasonable - two average prospects with some shot at roles in the majors, but don't look like guys who will be key cornerstones or top players, and more likely, role players/end of 25 man guys, if they stick in the majors. This ... seems reasonable to me.


The only way Pittsburgh can compete in this league is to get good value on their trade chips, coupled with a strong draft and development. They waited too long to move the one guy who was the face of their franchise for several years. I don't know that anyone is scoffing at the return so much, as how Pittsbugh turned such a valuable commodity at one time to such a small return today.
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