The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:30 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
Tim wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:

Unfortunately Schwarber,Baez, Contreras, Happ, etc. were the guys who came up in those situations.

So you're picking on Javy here?

The guy who led the NL in RBI?

The guy who had a .860 OPS with runners in scoring position?

Odd choice.



Baez had a great year, but I'm not sure he's the perfect person to make contact and hit a sacrifice fly to drive in a run.

Raking a double to drive in a run is much, much better than a sac fly for a run. You see, then not only do you not make an out, but you are in position to score if one of your teammates gets a hit later in that inning. If Baez can advance to third, then HE can score on a sac fly! Half of the trick getting sac fly RBIs is getting someone on third with less than two outs in the first place. Baez was able to do things like this often enough that he drove in more runs than anyone else in the National League. Why is this even a conversation? I thought this was the board that wanted Adam Dunn to field every position on the field because he hit dongs and drew walks? We won the World Series just two years ago by crushing dongs and drawing walks (and playing defense a little bit better than Adam Dunn.) What has happened here?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQbN0jFo_k
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby KrisBryantisaBeast » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:32 pm

Here's what I would do.
Sign Harper
Bring back Chavez and Hamels
Sign Jordy Mercer
Trade Ian Happ + spare parts for a dominate relief pitcher.
Trade Russell for a young reliever with options or a solid relief prospect.
Try to get salary relief for these guys if unsuccessful then cut them. Duensing/Kintzler/Chatwood.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:48 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
Tim wrote:So you're picking on Javy here?

The guy who led the NL in RBI?

The guy who had a .860 OPS with runners in scoring position?

Odd choice.



Baez had a great year, but I'm not sure he's the perfect person to make contact and hit a sacrifice fly to drive in a run.

Raking a double to drive in a run is much, much better than a sac fly for a run. You see, then not only do you not make an out, but you are in position to score if one of your teammates gets a hit later in that inning. If Baez can advance to third, then HE can score on a sac fly! Half of the trick getting sac fly RBIs is getting someone on third with less than two outs in the first place. Baez was able to do things like this often enough that he drove in more runs than anyone else in the National League. Why is this even a conversation? I thought this was the board that wanted Adam Dunn to field every position on the field because he hit dongs and drew walks? We won the World Series just two years ago by crushing dongs and drawing walks (and playing defense a little bit better than Adam Dunn.) What has happened here?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQbN0jFo_k


You're both firing ridiculous haymakers around how the Cubs do genuinely and bizarrely suck, for years now, at something as basic as getting a gun in from 3B via something like a sac fly.

That's not to say it's a skill they should seek someone out for, because that's ridiculously crazy. But they are bizarrely bad at it (and were only just OK at it in 2016).
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:20 pm

Tim wrote:
JennieGarthAlgar wrote:Javy Baez had a very good all or nothing year but that doesnt change the fact that he's still an all or nothing player, and we want less of those, obviously.

Define All or nothing. I don't think it means what you think it means.


squally1313 wrote:
The 'obviously' at the end horsefeathering kills me.


Old Style wrote:We want LESS players like Javy?

Image


Guess I should have used the green font :banghead:
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:44 pm

javy knows my name wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
rawaction wrote:
Does this player even exist anymore? Players are striking out at record levels.

And the Cubs had Zobrist, Murphy, Rizzo, and Heyward who put the ball in play. Almora not too bad either. That's plenty of non-all or nothing hitters.



Unfortunately Schwarber,Baez, Contreras, Happ, etc. were the guys who came up in those situations.


Jesus Christ

even he he was 0-5 with RISP
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Old Style » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:49 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
javy knows my name wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:

Unfortunately Schwarber,Baez, Contreras, Happ, etc. were the guys who came up in those situations.


Jesus Christ

even he he was 0-5 with RISP

That's because he can't hit a curveball.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:30 pm

Old Style wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
javy knows my name wrote:
Jesus Christ

even he he was 0-5 with RISP

That's because he can't hit a curveball.

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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Gilby » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:35 am

Non-tender Russell
Trade Duensing and Kintzler (and maybe prospects) for as much salary relief as possible
Trade Almora and Chatwood (maybe a prospect as well) to the Rockies for as much salary relief as possible

Sign Harper 10/340
Re-sign Hamels 2/30
Re-sign Chavez 2/10
Sign Hechavarria 1/2.5

That leaves an OD roster of

Zobrist
Harper
Bryant
Rizzo
Baez
Schwarber
Heyward
Contreras

Caratini
Hechavarria
La Stella
Happ
(Bote chillin' in AAA)

Lester
Hendricks
Hamels
Quintana
Darvish

Montgomery
Smyly
Rosario
Morrow
Strop
Cishek
Edwards
Chavez

There will likely be more new faces than that, specifically in the bullpen and backup catcher if there's enough money left, but that's my rough draft. I still don't think this FO and another team will agree on Schwarber's value, and Happ's value for us is still significant if Russell departs. I'll be surprised if either gets traded.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:41 am

As an FYI, I listened to a podcast with Ben Finfer, that had Sharma, Mooney, and Greenberg on it......

A few highlights.....

Feel even more confident in Hamels being back, than Joe. They also all feel we'll make the Rangers pay the 6 mill buyout. Expect him to sign a multi year deal.

Expect Almora back. Expect Happ back, because the Cubs think more highly of him than other teams do. Expect Schwarber to be dealt. Said they came really close to dealing him last offseason.

Needs are a back end of the pen option, a middle infielder, and a big middle of the order bat. With a backup C being possible too.

In non roster news, they questioned if Rizzo is too laid back to be the leader. Mentioned Javy and Strop as guys that are really starting to speak up more.

Almora and Schwarber took the WC Game loss particularly hard, a few guys were acting like nothing had happened.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Bertz » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:37 am

I wonder if $40m over the cap is not as much of a red line as we expected, or if they're just particularly confident that they can dump any salary they need to. Otherwise I'm not sure how keeping Hamels works. They're already right around the LT threshold here as the offseason begins.

If they're no longer married to Schwarber, he makes the most sense to go in the event they get Bryce. It's a clean 1 for 1 swap on the roster, whereas when dealing a Happ or someone you worry more about that loss of positional flexibility.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:54 am

If they DO deal Schwarber, I hope the return is more than just a good pen guy honestly.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby KingCubsFan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:02 pm

Given the way that the game is changing, I'd pass on Hamels. He was great this year, but I'd rather spend every available dollar on Harper and the bullpen. Smyly/Montgomery is fine for the regular season. I'd look to add 3-4 legit pen arms, with Morrow being the only guy I'd definitely bring back.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby muntjack » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:22 pm

I really hate the idea of trading Schwarber. I feel like he's going to put up some monster seasons, and we aren't going to get a fair return.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby treebird » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:38 pm

muntjack wrote:I really hate the idea of trading Schwarber. I feel like he's going to put up some monster seasons, and we aren't going to get a fair return.


this is an extremely reductive line of thinking, but it’s the one i’m going with:

given all we have constantly heard about how much the front office specifically loves schwarber and how good he is at all their weird brain tests and stuff, if they think it is time to trade him and aren’t scared about missing out on monster seasons, it is probably time to trade him and we shouldn’t be scared about missing out on monster seasons.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:38 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:I'd look to add 3-4 legit pen arms


Oh, that's all?
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby CP_414 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:44 pm

Maybe they will trade Schwarber, but Theo’s first complaint about the offense was that they stopped hitting homers and stopped taking walks in the 2nd half. Schwarber hit 26 HRs in 510 PAs and had a 15.3% walk rate. Getting rid of him does not help those problems.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I am hoping the “judge players by performance and not talent” thing isn’t about him. They gave about 1500 PAs between Russell, Almora, and Heyward this year. Russell should be gone for multiple reasons, Almora should either be traded or be put in a more strict platoon role, and Heyward had a better year, but he’s still bad. The contract is what it is, but you’ve just got to stop giving him 500 PA seasons. I hope that’s what he meant by judging players by performance. You can’t waste that many at bats on players that can’t hit.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby treebird » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:59 pm

CP_414 wrote:about 1500 PAs between Russell, Almora, and Heyward this year.


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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:58 pm

treebird wrote:
muntjack wrote:I really hate the idea of trading Schwarber. I feel like he's going to put up some monster seasons, and we aren't going to get a fair return.


this is an extremely reductive line of thinking, but it’s the one i’m going with:

given all we have constantly heard about how much the front office specifically loves schwarber and how good he is at all their weird brain tests and stuff, if they think it is time to trade him and aren’t scared about missing out on monster seasons, it is probably time to trade him and we shouldn’t be scared about missing out on monster seasons.


part of me wonders if some of the over-the-top Schwarber love from the FA recently is as much about them knowing that he would ultimately be trade fodder if a Harper pursuit ever got real, so they needed to project this image of "oh we LOVE this guy. Would HATE to lose him" the entire time so it at least looked somewhat legitimate. Rather than it being December, us offering $400 million to Harper and then you suddenly have a bunch of "i guess we could move schwarber but the return would have to be ginormous because of his brain WAR"
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby ConstableRabbit » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:40 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:
treebird wrote:
muntjack wrote:I really hate the idea of trading Schwarber. I feel like he's going to put up some monster seasons, and we aren't going to get a fair return.


this is an extremely reductive line of thinking, but it’s the one i’m going with:

given all we have constantly heard about how much the front office specifically loves schwarber and how good he is at all their weird brain tests and stuff, if they think it is time to trade him and aren’t scared about missing out on monster seasons, it is probably time to trade him and we shouldn’t be scared about missing out on monster seasons.


part of me wonders if some of the over-the-top Schwarber love from the FA recently is as much about them knowing that he would ultimately be trade fodder if a Harper pursuit ever got real, so they needed to project this image of "oh we LOVE this guy. Would HATE to lose him" the entire time so it at least looked somewhat legitimate. Rather than it being December, us offering $400 million to Harper and then you suddenly have a bunch of "i guess we could move schwarber but the return would have to be ginormous because of his brain WAR"

Now that's 4D chess I can get behind.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby The Logan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:23 pm

Schwarber will never put up monster seasons because the FO will not let him hit against LHP. The Cubs have committed to him being a platoon left fielder. His value is not nearly as high as we all want/perceive it to be.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:53 pm

Because he can't hit LH pitchers.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:01 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Because he can't hit LH pitchers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlJJfyatUNo
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 pm

ooh, now do one for all of his other at bats against lefties!
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Tim » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:13 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:ooh, now do one for all of his other at bats against lefties!

To be fair, the statement wasn't that he can't hit lefties consistently. Just that he couldn't do it.




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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby KingCubsFan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:14 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
KingCubsFan wrote:I'd look to add 3-4 legit pen arms


Oh, that's all?

Jorge De La Rosa was our closer at the end of the year. We're starting from scratch.
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