The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:58 pm

Old Style wrote:Supposedly Machado wants to sign with the Yankees in the off-season.

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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:19 pm

I thought that had been the assumed end result for a long, long time.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:35 am

Daniel Norris came back really strong opening with 4 perfect with 7 Ks against the Yankees. Then he left with a lower body injury. If he can get that gd groin figured out I really like him as an Arrieta candidate alot still.

I wonder who’d say no first to a Norris/Almora offseason swap...Maybe start Norris out in the pen

Note: If trading *for* a SP at all this offseason Stroman is still #1 on the wish list
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Backtobanks » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:02 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:Daniel Norris came back really strong opening with 4 perfect with 7 Ks against the Yankees. Then he left with a lower body injury. If he can get that gd groin figured out I really like him as an Arrieta candidate alot still.

I wonder who’d say no first to a Norris/Almora offseason swap...Maybe start Norris out in the pen

Note: If trading to a SP at all this offseason Stroman is still #1 on the wish list


Enough with the lefties in the rotation, let's find a righty.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:16 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:Daniel Norris came back really strong opening with 4 perfect with 7 Ks against the Yankees. Then he left with a lower body injury. If he can get that gd groin figured out I really like him as an Arrieta candidate alot still.

I wonder who’d say no first to a Norris/Almora offseason swap...Maybe start Norris out in the pen

Note: If trading to a SP at all this offseason Stroman is still #1 on the wish list


Enough with the lefties in the rotation, let's find a righty.


Darvish the Undead

Edit: Actually wouldn’t 100% be looking at Norris as a SP given the circumstance of Wilson’s impending FA, Norris’ inability to nail a SP role, and Montgomery’s possibile availability in a trade if they won’t garauntee a rotation spot
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:25 pm

There is no Darvish...only Zuul.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:35 pm

We've got this next year for the rotation.....

Lester(L), Quintana(L), Hendricks, Darvish, Chatwood, Smyly(L), Montgomery(L), Hamels(L)

With these guys in AAA, to provide more depth.....

Alzolay,Mills, Clifton, Robinson, Rucker

Honestly, that's the best DEPTH in AAA, that we'll have had in this regime's tenure. With AA being filled with more guy who have a legit shot at eventually providing innings in the majors at some point as well. Not elite arms, but lots and lots of fringe starter types, that a strength in numbers approach, will wind up having one of two of these guys eventually turning into Jason Hammel or something of that sort. Which, in all honesty, would be HUGE, for this organization. Just finding even backend cheap options......

On top of this depth, we've got a decision to make on Hamels. Who I suspect will be back. Whether it's picking up his 20 mill option of giving him a 2/32 Lackey type deal, I think he's back. So, let's add him to the top part now......

Personally, I don't give a horsefeathers about what hand a guy pitches with. However, we've got 5 lefties and 3 righties to start things off with...... And for that matter, Darvish and Chatwood are the 2 biggest questions of the 8.

So, even if/when Montgomery gets dealt, it'll still most likely be a righty we go after. And considering our monetary situation, where we've got a surplus of position players and also very likely to go hard after Bryce, I'd suspect 2 of Almora, Happ, or Addy, plus Monty, is likely to be what we're trading to acquire us a controllable arm......

With our depth, I guess it's at least POSSIBLE, even if I don't particularly see it happening..... We could move one of those position players for a minor league arm, and use the other, plus Monty for a very nice pen piece. Or reverse that scenario.......

Either way, we're heading into 2019 with at least Lester, Quintana, Hamels, Smyly, Hendricks, Darvish, and Chatwood. Plus our depth and likely one more addition via trade. Which makes this a very solid group.

Chatswood is the easiest to hide in the pen. Which is what I'm guessing we do with him. Or even keeping him in EXST, to work on things, if his yips aren't gone.

That still leaves us with 6, plus a trade addition.....

The pen is full too, in all honesty.

You've got the following......

Morrow, Strop, Edwards, Cishek, Duensing(L), Kintzler, Maples, Norwood, Rosario(L)

Plus you've got Kyle Ryan(L), Danny Hultzen(L) and especially Allen Webster, that any to all of the 3 could conceivably get added to the 40 Man, prior to next year. Personally, I think Webster absolutely will. The other 2 being long shots.

You also have Dakota Mekkes to factor in next year. Plus, a few guys who may survive the offseason, like Underwood or Hancock.

On top of this, you've got Justin Wilson and Jesse Chavez. Who I think we'll be interested in bringing back. Chavez even provides more rotational depth.....

Wilson likely becomes a bargain with so many relievers in the market too. My guess is 1/8 with an option probably keeps him...... Chavez comes in at 1/5 or something like that, maybe an option as well......

We'll fire Duensing and Kintzler into the sun and eat their money or attach something to move them.

Anyway, if you're keeping 13 pitchers TOTAL, even accounting for an injury or 2..... We don't have many spots to play with. Let's say we keep ALL of Hamels, Wilson, and Chavez. Fire Duensing and Kintzler away and trade Montgomery.......

You've got this.....

Lester(L), Quintana(L), Hamels(L), Smyly(L), Chatwood, Hendricks, Darvish

Morrow, Strop, Edwards, Cishek, Wilson(L), Chavez, Rosario(L), Maples, Norwood

That's 16. And I honestly believe that at least one of the other guys I've mentioned, like Webster, Mills, or even Alzolay, make the roster next year......

And I suspect an additional starting pitcher AND an additional late innings pen arm is added too.

Both thru trade, if we get Bryce. Thru FA for the pen arm, if we miss out on him.

At any rate, I think Hamels, Wilson, and Chavez are all back. Monty, Duensing, and Kintzler are gone.....

And we'll only have room for one addition each, for the rotation and the pen. Most likely done thru trade, in both cases. With 2 of Almora, Happ, and Addy, plus Monty, as the main bait.

Fun off-season ahead.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:49 pm

As always, I say go big:

Sign Harper

Trade Contreras for Stroman, maybe add Giles and get some cash

Almora+ for Realmuto, Conley

Then add in some ML depth - I’m thinking Diekman and Joe Kelly for the pen is really it

Harper
Bryant
Rizzo
Realmuto
Schwarber
Baez
Zobrist
Heyward

Bench: Russell, Happ, Caratini, ?

Hendricks
Hamels
Stroman
Lester
Darvish

Morrow
Edwards
Cishek
Strop
Conley
Giles
Diekman
Kelly

Get someone like Seattle or Anaheim to eat Chatwood, Duensing, and Kintzler probably offering cash maybe attaching a Rk/SS player
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:55 pm

and Quintana?
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:58 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:and Quintana?


Dual fronts trade?
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Tim » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:59 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:...

Trade Contreras for Stroman, maybe add Giles and get some cash

...

You continue to be obsessed with Stroman. It's possible that he's not as good as he was projected to be.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:06 pm

Tim wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:...

Trade Contreras for Stroman, maybe add Giles and get some cash

...

You continue to be obsessed with Stroman. It's possible that he's not as good as he was projected to be.


Eh, I think he can be his 2017 self+ (3.6 fWAR, 5+ rWAR, 200+ innings) for a 2-3 year run with some tweaking. Guy gets 10+% whiff rates with four different pitches and almost made it five with his four seam this year on top of maintaining his crazy GB rates
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:08 pm

Almora+ better be one hell of a lot of +, to get Realmuto, since they wanted Robles+, this past deadline.

We're not trading Contreras. His pre-arb years and even early arb years are one of the reasons we may be able to fit Bryce into our payroll.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:24 pm

davell wrote:We're not trading Contreras. His pre-arb years and even early arb years are one of the reasons we may be able to fit Bryce into our payroll.


That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:31 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:We're not trading Contreras. His pre-arb years and even early arb years are one of the reasons we may be able to fit Bryce into our payroll.


That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true

Adding Stroman and Realmuto at the cost of Contreras and Almora adds quite a bit of payroll. Stroman will make $8-10 mil next year and Realmuto around $5 probably.

I just have no interest in Stroman.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:34 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:We're not trading Contreras. His pre-arb years and even early arb years are one of the reasons we may be able to fit Bryce into our payroll.


That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true

Adding Stroman and Realmuto at the cost of Contreras and Almora adds quite a bit of payroll. Stroman will make $8-10 mil next year and Realmuto around $5 probably.

I just have no interest in Stroman.


What effect does dumping Chatwood, Kintzler, and Duensing have? Not resigning Wilson and Estrada? Some good news might be that missed time might put Realmuto and Stroman on the lower end of those salaries. I guessed they were just about pushing it

I'm not getting the disinterest in Stroman. He was excellent in 2016-2017 and came back with basically the same skills this year, most likely dealing with fixable issues like sequencing
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:39 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true

Adding Stroman and Realmuto at the cost of Contreras and Almora adds quite a bit of payroll. Stroman will make $8-10 mil next year and Realmuto around $5 probably.

I just have no interest in Stroman.


What effect does dumping Chatwood, Kintzler, and Duensing have?

It’s going to cost something(s) real to move Chatwood. Hopefully Kintzler doesn’t pick up his option, Duensing should be too hard to move but still will cost something. I just think all these moves don’t make sense to marginally upgrade at best with Realmuto over Contreras and Stroman in the rotation over Hamels/Monty for the LT hit they’ll cost.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:55 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:We're not trading Contreras. His pre-arb years and even early arb years are one of the reasons we may be able to fit Bryce into our payroll.


That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true


Before editing, you asked where your roster would be payroll-wise. Arb figures are what I used in my original post for our guys, although I could see Javy and Schwarber both being a mill higher.

I've got your roster at 188. That's with Hamels on a 2/32 deal, not just picking up his option. That's with Realmuto at 8, Stroman at 9, Giles at 5. This is not including the rest of the 40 Man salary, which is around 3 mill. This figure does not include 12-14 mill for insurances. And while I think we WILL attach something to move Duensing and Kintzler deals, we're not attaching what it's going to take to move Chatwood. But, let's say we do.....

You're basically at the LT, after making those moves, AND getting rid of all of Chatwood's deal......

Then, you've still got to sign Bryce. And Diekman and Kelly. I will guess Diekman gets 1/4.5 and Kelly gets 1/7. Bryce gets 12/432, or 36 per......

All in all, you're around 5-8 mill over the top end of the LT. But again, this is with us trading off Chatwood, Duensing, and Kintzler, without taking on ANY salary at all.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:06 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:It’s going to cost something(s) real to move Chatwood. Hopefully Kintzler doesn’t pick up his option, Duensing should be too hard to move but still will cost something. I just think all these moves don’t make sense to marginally upgrade at best with Realmuto over Contreras and Stroman in the rotation over Hamels/Monty for the LT hit they’ll cost.


I wouldn't be surprised in this scenario if they could dump Chatwood on the Blue Jays in a scenario the Cubs take on Giles. The Jays would need to fill innings and have the payroll flexibility.

Realmuto's a pretty large upgrade on Contreras defensively (something like 17 runs between them this year) and probably a better hitter. Willson's biggest defensive tool, his arm to control the running game, drops in value to the Cubs when the offense with Harper will be so good.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:19 pm

davell wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:We're not trading Contreras. His pre-arb years and even early arb years are one of the reasons we may be able to fit Bryce into our payroll.


That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true


Before editing, you asked where your roster would be payroll-wise. Arb figures are what I used in my original post for our guys, although I could see Javy and Schwarber both being a mill higher.

I've got your roster at 188. That's with Hamels on a 2/32 deal, not just picking up his option. That's with Realmuto at 8, Stroman at 9, Giles at 5. This is not including the rest of the 40 Man salary, which is around 3 mill. This figure does not include 12-14 mill for insurances. And while I think we WILL attach something to move Duensing and Kintzler deals, we're not attaching what it's going to take to move Chatwood. But, let's say we do.....

You're basically at the LT, after making those moves, AND getting rid of all of Chatwood's deal......

Then, you've still got to sign Bryce. And Diekman and Kelly. I will guess Diekman gets 1/4.5 and Kelly gets 1/7. Bryce gets 12/432, or 36 per......

All in all, you're around 5-8 mill over the top end of the LT. But again, this is with us trading off Chatwood, Duensing, and Kintzler, without taking on ANY salary at all.


Probably shooting high on Realmuto (5-6), Stroman(7-8), Diekman (4), and Kelly's (5) salary by about $5.5 million so there's some room there...Overall that seems like something that can be worked with? Until the next imagined offseason!
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:21 pm

Giles peripherals are solid. Hes not a bad contract. And if he WAS, they'd non tender him anyway. Now Chatwood, on the other hand, has 2/25.5 left on his deal. In all honesty, if he's a FA, what's he getting from a team? 1/4 was my honest guess. But, an incentive laden minor league deal is a legit possibility. Plenty of low end options out there, that are cheap. No reason why anyone needs to pay up for him. Don't see us trading him at the absolute lowest his value could get.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Regular Show » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:29 pm

davell wrote:Giles peripherals are solid. Hes not a bad contract. And if he WAS, they'd non tender him anyway. Now Chatwood, on the other hand, has 2/25.5 left on his deal. In all honesty, if he's a FA, what's he getting from a team? 1/4 was my honest guess. But, an incentive laden minor league deal is a legit possibility. Plenty of low end options out there, that are cheap. No reason why anyone needs to pay up for him. Don't see us trading him at the absolute lowest his value could get.


Are you guys talking about Ken Giles? The idiot with seriously bad makeup concerns? horsefeathers no, we're not trading for that loser...



Just move on guys. Theo and Jed aren't making a trade for him lol.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:33 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
That roster isn't blowing up the LT* as Realmuto only has one less year pre-FA year*

*Not sure if true


Before editing, you asked where your roster would be payroll-wise. Arb figures are what I used in my original post for our guys, although I could see Javy and Schwarber both being a mill higher.

I've got your roster at 188. That's with Hamels on a 2/32 deal, not just picking up his option. That's with Realmuto at 8, Stroman at 9, Giles at 5. This is not including the rest of the 40 Man salary, which is around 3 mill. This figure does not include 12-14 mill for insurances. And while I think we WILL attach something to move Duensing and Kintzler deals, we're not attaching what it's going to take to move Chatwood. But, let's say we do.....

You're basically at the LT, after making those moves, AND getting rid of all of Chatwood's deal......

Then, you've still got to sign Bryce. And Diekman and Kelly. I will guess Diekman gets 1/4.5 and Kelly gets 1/7. Bryce gets 12/432, or 36 per......

All in all, you're around 5-8 mill over the top end of the LT. But again, this is with us trading off Chatwood, Duensing, and Kintzler, without taking on ANY salary at all.


Probably shooting high on Realmuto (5-6), Stroman(7-8), Diekman (4), and Kelly's (5) salary by about $5.5 million so there's some room there...Overall that seems like something that can be worked with? Until the next imagined offseason!


Agree to disagree on the numbers there. Especially Realmuto, who's having a hell of a year. Think he gets a huge raise. And I feel Kelly gets paid well just for his velo, if nothing else. It's possible I'm overshooting on Diekman or Stroman, but not all 4.

I'm the end, you're basically making all these extra moves, to wind up with Realmuto and Stroman, which raises payroll and isn't guaranteed to be better than Willy and Quintana.

I'm not opposed to adding Stroman. Realmuto seems definite overkill. Like I said originally, we've got 2 of 3 of Addy, Happ, and Almora, plus Monty to move for pitching...... If Stroman is part of that equation, I'm fine with it. But, im.not advocating giving them 2 of those 3 and Monty for him. That's too much, in my eyes.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby davell » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:35 pm

Regular Show wrote:
davell wrote:Giles peripherals are solid. Hes not a bad contract. And if he WAS, they'd non tender him anyway. Now Chatwood, on the other hand, has 2/25.5 left on his deal. In all honesty, if he's a FA, what's he getting from a team? 1/4 was my honest guess. But, an incentive laden minor league deal is a legit possibility. Plenty of low end options out there, that are cheap. No reason why anyone needs to pay up for him. Don't see us trading him at the absolute lowest his value could get.


Are you guys talking about Ken Giles? The idiot with seriously bad makeup concerns? horsefeathers no, we're not trading for that loser...



Just move on guys. Theo and Jed aren't making a trade for him lol.


I'm not suggesting adding him. I'm just saying that he's not going to be used as bad salary. They can non tender him, if they think he's not worth his arb number.
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Re: The way too early, but I'm bored, Off-season Options Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:06 pm

Also Joe Kelly kinda sucks other than it’s cool he throws hard. He’s kinda like right handed Wilson. I’d rather have Chavez back for cheaper than him, honestly.
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