The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby UMFan83 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:45 am

Really good article by Mooney with a lot of Theo quotes that reveal his mindset this offseason

The ESPN headline got it wrong, implying this was an actual possibility or the logical extension of a no-one-is-untouchable philosophy: “Cubs open to trading 3B Kris Bryant.”

To be clear, sources said the Cubs aren’t shopping Bryant or planning to deal him as the first move that completely reimagines this team. President of baseball operations Theo Epstein already issued denials to the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times, dismissing last week’s ESPN report and signaling the Cubs will continue building around Bryant.

Think about it: During various trading cycles, the Cubs have had enough trouble matching up their perceived value of an unproven young player like Ian Happ … so how are they ever going to get enough for the 2016 National League MVP after a down season?

But Buster Olney — ESPN’s respected national writer and sideline reporter for “Sunday Night Baseball” — did correctly identify the big ideas behind this unpredictable Chicago winter: Epstein’s pent-up frustrations, restless nature and looming budget crunch.

Because in theory, there is a reasonable case to be made for the Cubs essentially bringing the same team back together in 2019, riding the NL’s best 1-through-5 rotation, strengthening the bullpen, waiting for players to get healthy and hoping a different hitting coach/new message improves the offense.

Except Epstein simply isn’t wired that way or looking to double down on more of the same. Just listen to Epstein one week ago at the general manager meetings in Carlsbad, California, sitting in a hotel room at the Omni La Costa Resort & Spa with a small group of Chicago reporters for almost an hour. Here’s how Epstein responded when 670 The Score’s Bruce Levine mentioned a caller from Green Bay who compared Theo’s expectations to Vince Lombardi’s belief that “winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”

“Everyone who was around the team, from the players themselves to you guys (in the media) to the fans, we all know that the takeaway from that season wasn’t the positives,” Epstein said. “It wasn’t the 95 wins. It wasn’t how together the players managed to be — and that takes some doing — that was a really together, connected clubhouse. It wasn’t the fine, outstanding individual seasons that many of our players enjoyed. It wasn’t battling through a gauntlet of 42 games in 43 days. All those things were realities, but those aren’t the takeaways from the season.

“The takeaways are that we got caught from behind and we had opportunities to put that division away and to make another postseason run. For myriad reasons, it didn’t happen, so we damn well better be honest with ourselves about the reasons why it didn’t happen and find ways to fix it. Or else what the hell are we doing here?

“So, yeah, we’re not going to sit here and celebrate 95 wins. We’re going to be pissed off about the way the season ended. It doesn’t matter if I’m pissed off. Our players are pissed off. And they know that they have an opportunity to be part of something special. They basically built it. They helped build it. And we want to take full advantage of it because you can’t take anything for granted in this game.”

Epstein snapped his fingers and kept talking: “You look up and it goes really fast. Teams don’t stay together forever and we need to find a way to take advantage of this great opportunity that we have. That doesn’t make anyone around here Vince Lombardi. It makes us Cubs. This has been a real winning group the last four years. That was a low moment for us – 95 wins or not – and we don’t want to live through that again.”


Theo Epstein said Kris Bryant isn’t “untouchable,” but that doesn’t mean he’s actively shopping the former MVP. (Dylan Buell/Getty Images)
Whatever issues ex-hitting coach Chili Davis had in trying to connect with the overall group, Bryant was again performing at an MVP level in April and May before injuring his left shoulder during a headfirst slide that ultimately sapped his power and limited him to 102 games. Plus, Bryant already knows his swing and should function as his own hitting coach after all those years working with his father in the family’s batting cage back home in Las Vegas.

Super-agent Scott Boras first remembered dealing with Epstein on Xavier Nady’s major-league contract with the San Diego Padres coming out of the 2000 draft, so it’s not like the Cubs were blindsided by Bryant’s camp or Boras Corp. tactics. MLB Trade Rumors projects Bryant will make $12.4 million next year through the arbitration system, one of several escalating salary commitments — combined with underperforming free-agent contracts — that will force the Cubs to get creative if they want to make significant additions to the roster.

All along, Epstein saw a seven-year window at Wrigley Field before Bryant would test the open market as a free agent. That through-the-2021-season timeline syncs up Bryant and Epstein, who by then will be at Year 10 of 10 in the Bill Walsh change-is-good philosophy he cited after leaving the Boston Red Sox. Epstein is focused on trying to win at least one more World Series title with Bryant in the next three seasons.

In the middle of another media scrum at the GM meetings, Epstein was asked: Are any of your guys untouchable?

“No,” Epstein said.

What about Anthony Rizzo or Bryant?

“We’ve never operated with untouchables,” Epstein said. “I just think it sends the wrong message. I mean, there will be guys who are — given what we’re trying to accomplish — (at a point where) it would be virtually impossible to envision the deal that would make sense to move them.

“I just don’t believe in operating with untouchables. Because why limit yourself? But there are players who are so important to us on the field and in the clubhouse that it would just be going backwards through whatever lens — narrow view, long view — by moving those guys. Players who have almost made themselves untouchable. It’s semantics, but we don’t really talk that way.”

Tribune baseball columnist Paul Sullivan pressed Epstein with another follow-up question: But do you want some players to maybe think “I better get my horsefeathers together” this offseason?

“No, I don’t believe in sending messages through the media,” Epstein said. “Or your exact quote was ‘I better get my horsefeathers together’ or something. I don’t believe in that. I just believe in communicating — not in the media — directly with players about where we think they should be at in their careers. And validate the things we’re doing really well and identify things they need to do better and try to work with them to make sure that happens.

“I think they all understand — like all of us — their careers depend on performance and in some cases on improvement. Playing time and spots on the roster and all those things — it’s a business. They depend on performance. And ultimately our success as an organization depends on performance. That’s the reality and we’re communicating really directly with our guys about it and working really hard with them to attain those goals.”

That reevaluation of The Cubs Way shut down any offseason extension talks with lame-duck manager Joe Maddon. The Cubs wouldn’t have fired Davis if their young hitters had good seasons (and by extension good trade value). There isn’t an unlimited budget, especially given all the uncertainty surrounding the cable-TV business. It’s not even Thanksgiving yet and we’ve already spent more than 1,000 words on a Bryant trade rumor. Buckle up, this is going to be a wild offseason, because Epstein just said it: “We’re pissed off.”

(Top photo: David Banks/Getty Images)
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubfanintheknow » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:45 am

So when does the "15 day window" start exactly? The World Series ended exactly 15 days ago coming up in a few hours.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:55 am

Cubfanintheknow wrote:So when does the "15 day window" start exactly? The World Series ended exactly 15 days ago coming up in a few hours.

15 day window for what?
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubfanintheknow » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:08 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Cubfanintheknow wrote:So when does the "15 day window" start exactly? The World Series ended exactly 15 days ago coming up in a few hours.

15 day window for what?


NM... it's 5, not 15. My bad.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby big ball chunky time » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:20 pm

It’s actually the V day window
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:57 am

There’s a fair amount of non-tender candidates liated on MLBTR that might make sense for the Cubs this offseason. I wouldn’t dare look at numbers at this ungodly hour so the bold are names that more ring a bell. If there’s anything written by me next to their name it’s because I am already defensive:

Position Players

Ehire Adrianza (Twins, $1.8MM)
Aaron Altherr (Phillies, $1.6MM)
Tim Beckham (Orioles, $4.3MM)
Justin Bour (Phillies, $5.2MM)
Cheslor Cuthbert (Royals, $1.1MM)
Travis d’Arnaud (Mets, $3.7MM) - Has power and can catch, made of glass
Delino DeShields Jr. (Rangers, $1.9MM)
Adam Duvall (Braves, $3.1MM)
Wilmer Flores (Mets, $4.7MM)
Avisail Garcia (White Sox, $8.0MM)
Leury Garcia (White Sox, $1.9MM)
Greg Garcia (Padres, $900K)
Robbie Grossman (Twins, $4.0MM)
Gorkys Hernandez (Giants, $1.6MM)
Chris Herrmann (Astros, $1.5MM)
Caleb Joseph (Orioles, $1.7MM)
Erik Kratz (Brewers, $1.7MM)
Sandy Leon (Red Sox, $2.3MM)
Jake Marisnick (Astros, $2.4MM) - Fits my want for a RHH capable of playing CF and hitting with some power
James McCann (Tigers, $3.5MM)
John Ryan Murphy (Diamondbacks, $1.1MM)
Chris Owings (Diamondbacks, $3.6MM) - Last I remember he’s played SS, 2B, and CF in the MLs
Hernan Perez (Brewers, $2.7MM)
Josh Phegley (Athletics, $1.2MM)
Miguel Rojas (Marlins, $2.6MM)
Addison Russell (Cubs, $4.3MM)
Tyler Saladino (Brewers, $1.0MM)
Jonathan Schoop (Brewers, $10.1MM)
Yangervis Solarte (Blue Jays, $5.9MM)
Cory Spangenberg (Padres, $2.3MM)
Devon Travis (Blue Jays, $2.4MM) - Could make sense in a Harper led offseason? So many players could maybe make sense if they sign Harper
Tony Wolters (Rockies, $1.1MM)

Pitchers

Matt Andriese (Diamondbacks, $1.1MM)
Chad Bettis (Rockies, $3.2M)
Eddie Butler (Rangers, $900K)
Brian Flynn (Royals, $1.0MM) - Liked his arm and frame combo as a prospect but lost track maybe 2-3 years ago
Sam Freeman (Braves, $1.5M)
Luis Garcia (Phillies, $1.7MM)
Yimi Garcia (Dodgers, $900K)
Jesse Hahn (Royals, $1.7MM)
Tom Koehler (Dodgers, $2.0MM)
Shelby Miller (Diamondbacks, $4.9MM)
Bryan Mitchell (Padres, $1.2MM) - Think he’d be a good gamble
Neil Ramirez (Indians, $1.3MM)
Tanner Roark (Nationals, $9.8MM)
Zac Rosscup (Dodgers, $800K)
Chris Rusin (Rockies, $1.7MM)
Chasen Shreve (Cardinals, $1.2MM) - Liked him enough when with the Yankees, solid velocity as a LH and misses bats with his four seam, friend of Harper
Sammy Solis (Nationals, $900K)
Tyler Thornburg (Red Sox, $2.3MM)
Jonny Venters (Braves, $1.5M)

Not sure where Hahn or Thornburg are health wise but if I made bold Shreve and Flynn...James McCann or Calbeb Joseph might fit the cheap backup C thing but really I have no idea how either has done as a MLer...DeShields is a position player that I remember thinking could find a niche earlier in the offseason...

Edited to include Marisnick and Solarte. Solarte’s possibly/suppoedly a versatile switch hitter in his mid-20’s that got moved aggressively and has had some ML success, seems like that could fit. All these guys work best on a Cubs roster with Bryce Harper
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Who says no? 1 of Schwarber/Happ, Q, Kintzler and a prospect for Kluber and maybe a prospect back.

Reasoning is the Indians are apparently strapped/not wanting to spend. They didn’t even offer Brantley the QO because they couldn’t fit that $ in if he accepted. Kluber is owed $1.5 million more the next two years than Q (and is ~3 years older), their position players outside of Lindor and Ramirez (especially outfielders) suck and they lose Miller and Allen and need some bullpen reinforcements. They are in a competitive window and this lets them fill their roster without spending a ton more. They lose the top end of a guy like Kluber but in the aggregate they make up for it in the 3 guys they get. This move clears a little money for us and the OF log jam for Bryce and gives us more upside in the rotation.


I really only like this idea if we get Bryce, if we do it and just get like Brantley or Pollock I don’t love it.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:17 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Who says no? 1 of Schwarber/Happ, Q, Kintzler and a prospect (I’d include Adbert personally) for Kluber.

Reasoning is the Indians are apparently strapped/not wanting to spend. They didn’t even offer Brantley the QO because they couldn’t fit that $ in if he accepted. Kluber is owed $1.5 million more the next two years than Q (and is ~3 years older), their position players outside of Lindor and Ramirez (especially outfielders) suck and they lose Miller and Allen and need some bullpen reinforcements. They are in a competitive window and this lets them fill their roster without spending a ton more. They lose the top end of a guy like Kluber but in the aggregate they make up for it in the 3 guys they get. This move clears a little money for us and the OF log jam for Bryce and gives us more upside in the rotation.

I really only like this idea if we get Bryce, if we do it and just get like Brantley or Pollock I don’t love it.


Cleveland. Seems a little light for a perrenial CY candidate switching to the DH-less league

Edit: Missed that Quintana is in the trade. Hm...I mean I’d be very interested if I was the Cubs, for sure, and that seems alot more fair. I’d ask for another arm out of principle but in this case that could be some SS/Rk level arm
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:31 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Who says no? 1 of Schwarber/Happ, Q, Kintzler and a prospect (I’d include Adbert personally) for Kluber.

Reasoning is the Indians are apparently strapped/not wanting to spend. They didn’t even offer Brantley the QO because they couldn’t fit that $ in if he accepted. Kluber is owed $1.5 million more the next two years than Q (and is ~3 years older), their position players outside of Lindor and Ramirez (especially outfielders) suck and they lose Miller and Allen and need some bullpen reinforcements. They are in a competitive window and this lets them fill their roster without spending a ton more. They lose the top end of a guy like Kluber but in the aggregate they make up for it in the 3 guys they get. This move clears a little money for us and the OF log jam for Bryce and gives us more upside in the rotation.

I really only like this idea if we get Bryce, if we do it and just get like Brantley or Pollock I don’t love it.


Cleveland. Seems a little light for a perrenial CY candidate switching to the DH-less league

Edit: Missed that Quintana is in the trade. Hm...I mean I’d be very interested if I was the Cubs, for sure, and that seems alot more fair. I’d ask for another arm out of principle but in this case that could be some longshot at the SS/Rk levels

Yeah if the assumption is Cleveland is looking for a trade that keeps them as good or better in a Kluber deal it would be tough to top this (if they’re looking for prospect packages then yeah they can do better than this, but they’re in a competitive window in the easiest division in MLB, they will likely do a trade that helps them now over 3-5 years from now).

They add a young, controlled bat that’s better than all their non-MVP candidates, an established SP that’s about 50-75% of the pitcher they’re trading that’s younger and cheaper (next year) and get a bullpen arm to throw in the mix. They’re trading upside/ceiling but locking in a higher floor and spreading talent around to positions they lack even replacement level guys at (which they apparently can’t spend to add to).

Kluber is 33 on opening day and guaranteed controlled for 2 more years, fwiw, at $10.5 and $13 million. Then has team options for 21 and 22 at $13.5 and $14 million but both can go up ~$4 million with escalators.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:50 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Yeah if the assumption is Cleveland is looking for a trade that keeps them as good or better in a Kluber deal it would be tough to top this (if they’re looking for prospect packages then yeah they can do better than this, but they’re in a competitive window in the easiest division in MLB, they will likely do a trade that helps them now over 3-5 years from now).

They add a young, controlled bat that’s better than all their non-MVP candidates, an established SP that’s about 50-75% of the pitcher they’re trading that’s younger and cheaper (next year) and get a bullpen arm to throw in the mix. They’re trading upside/ceiling but locking in a higher floor and spreading talent around to positions they lack even replacement level guys at (which they also apparently can’t spend to add to).

Kluber is 33 on opening day and guaranteed controlled for 2 more years, fwiw, at $10.5 and $13 million. Then has team options for 21 and 22 at $13.5 and $14 million but both can go up ~$4 million with escalators.


I don’t need to be convinced of Kluber. I’m a fan of going after the top reasonably priced, surgery free ace potential SP available if/(when) they sign Harper and he is that plus more.

Can the Cubs sneak in Yu Chang so I get my fill of [seemingly(!)] random player I like or will that encroach on Cleveland’s dearth of bats?
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby squally1313 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:43 pm

My buddy just said he saw a rumor on ESPN about Schwarber and Azlolay for Edwin Diaz.

Even being a huge Schwarber fan, contingent on making a big offensive free agent signing, I...don't hate it?
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:45 pm

squally1313 wrote:My buddy just said he saw a rumor on ESPN about Schwarber and Azlolay for Edwin Diaz.

Even being a huge Schwarber fan, contingent on making a big offensive free agent signing, I...don't hate it?

I’d probably do that. Especially if Bryce is in play and if they’d take Kintzler or Duensing back in the deal.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:02 pm

I'd love it. A true Bullpen of Doom is more valuable than Schwarber ever will be on a NL team.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:04 pm

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:08 pm

If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:46 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.


Because Cruz/Schwarber would be awesome
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread -

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:47 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.


Because Cruz/Schwarber would be awesome

Cruz is a FA
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:48 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.

Dipoto always likes the half ass it between competing and rebuilding is my only rebuttal because yeah that makes sense.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:52 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.


Because Cruz/Schwarber would be awesome

Cruz is a FA



Im trying to help you sell here
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Post Count Padder » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:06 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Who says no? 1 of Schwarber/Happ, Q, Kintzler and a prospect for Kluber and maybe a prospect back.

Reasoning is the Indians are apparently strapped/not wanting to spend. They didn’t even offer Brantley the QO because they couldn’t fit that $ in if he accepted. Kluber is owed $1.5 million more the next two years than Q (and is ~3 years older), their position players outside of Lindor and Ramirez (especially outfielders) suck and they lose Miller and Allen and need some bullpen reinforcements. They are in a competitive window and this lets them fill their roster without spending a ton more. They lose the top end of a guy like Kluber but in the aggregate they make up for it in the 3 guys they get. This move clears a little money for us and the OF log jam for Bryce and gives us more upside in the rotation.


I really only like this idea if we get Bryce, if we do it and just get like Brantley or Pollock I don’t love it.

I'd do Happ, kintzler and alzolay for Kluber. Cleveland wouldn't though.

If it's Q and and someone like Lange or Abbot Id do it but again I don't think Cleveland would and idk if I'm willing to do all of that for him. Then again I wouldn't have traded Eloy for Q so what do I know
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby davell » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:04 pm

Kluber is INSANELY good. The Indians, if they traded him, would receive an absolute HAUL.

His last 5 seasons? Over 200 innings each year. 31 fWAR. Seriously, THIRTY ONE. 32.6 bWAR. I mean....... horsefeathers lol.

The Indians can and would do much better than anything we've got to offer, that starts with Schwarber or Happ and has Quintana in it.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:24 pm

davell wrote:Kluber is INSANELY good. The Indians, if they traded him, would receive an absolute HAUL.

His last 5 seasons? Over 200 innings each year. 31 fWAR. Seriously, THIRTY ONE. 32.6 bWAR. I mean....... horsefeathers lol.

The Indians can and would do much better than anything we've got to offer, that starts with Schwarber or Happ and has Quintana in it.

I don’t disagree they could do much better if they went more prospect centric, but if they’re looking for a trade that lets them stay as good/competitive with major league pieces for the next 2-4 years in their current window I think we’re near the top with that rough Q and Schwarber/Happ offer along with a minor league piece. Like the Braves could offer up some of their young pitchers who aren’t known and Carmago? That’s maybe more upside but also maybe doesn’t make them as good for the next ~2 years as those pitchers may need more time.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:26 pm

davell wrote:Kluber is INSANELY good. The Indians, if they traded him, would receive an absolute HAUL.

His last 5 seasons? Over 200 innings each year. 31 fWAR. Seriously, THIRTY ONE. 32.6 bWAR. I mean....... horsefeathers lol.

The Indians can and would do much better than anything we've got to offer, that starts with Schwarber or Happ and has Quintana in it.


Is this 100% true? If the baseline is closer to:

- most prospects end up sucking
- trading superstars for prospects rarely works out for the team gettin the prospects

then getting a cheap starting caliber power bat plus a well priced 2+ WAR 170+ inning healthy rotation arm still in the 20s maybe looks like a stronger open to a package
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:32 pm

The Indians also have similar concerns as the White Sox do as to how much the bottom can fall out of attendance(they won 90+ games and were 21st in attendance, outdrawn by the likes of Minnesota and San Diego), that might inform how they would want a trade return to look like.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby davell » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:40 pm

1) I don't think they'll actually deal him. We operate like when we hear WE need to shave money, it's nonsense, but when others do, it's just true. Again, just don't think they'll do it.
2) I don't think percentages show that top end prospects failure rates are THAT high at all. And I do think they'd get 2 top 50 types, maybe one of them is even top 10-15.
3) Doesn't mean much, but the MLBTR guy today laughed at this offer, so he agrees with me anyway.
4) A guy brought up Newcomb, Inciarte, and one of the Braves elite pitching prospects. I think that beats the Cubs offer by a decent amount personally. Other teams just have more ammo than we do for a move like this.
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