The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:19 pm

r_mack wrote:
CubinNY wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:
I dunno, there might be plenty of fans expressing congratulations to the Ricketts for their swelling bank accounts, based on the ready defense of billionaires I've seen across Cubs interwebs.

I don’t get why people take sides with the owners.

I don't get why people attack owners like the Ricketts who are going to spend $220 million on their baseball team this year, the most in the National League. They don't have unlimited money to spend on this team, it's a business.

They're not going to hire you.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Derwood » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:23 am

There is a 99.7% chance that r_mack has tweeted “TAXES ARE THEFT!!!” within the last three years
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:32 am

Derwood wrote:There is a 99.7% chance that r_mack has tweeted “TAXES ARE THEFT!!!” within the last three years

Catch up, taxes are slavery these days.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:38 am

there are lots of businesses. owning a sports team is not a business.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bull » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:04 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:there are lots of businesses. owning a sports team is not a business.


I don't know what to do with this. If you mean "owning a sports team shouldn't be a business," I can go along - but only so far.

But that's just not realistic. Maybe I have some sort of strange Stockholm Syndrome from following the Cubs during Tribune ownership, but I don't see how its anything but a business.

**I'm not a businessman, so forgive me if I misuse some terms**

Have we forgotten the whole saga of tribune ownership, and underspending? Tribune in bankruptcy and selling the team? Sam Zell and the resrictions put on the Rickett's as far as requiring a certain debt load (if I'm remembering correctly)? The revitalization of the neighborhood?

As much of a fan as Ricketts might be, you can't be naive enough to think that someone with a background in BANKING AND INVESMENTS would go through countless hours of meetings, fights with the neighborhood, the rooftops, and the city if they didn't think it would gain them a profit. These people live life by ROI. And all the other owners are business owners as well.

I don't have to like them. I don't have to like big business, but to fail to recognize that an asset acquired for nearly a billion dollars is anything but big business is somewhere between gullible and dense.

Churchill said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others. I feel the same way about capitalism. It is the worst economic system, except all the others. It really is the worst. but its what we have, and to expect people who have played that system for generations, and have invested the time and energy they have in it to not turn a HEFTY profit is to fail to understand the world around you. I wouldn't be surprised if they are leading the way on collusion. I'd image the penalties on baseball collusion will be much less than the same behavior in the banking industry and the Ricketts' know it.

That said, the Cubs have a top 5 payroll, will continue have one. They have been more competitive this last 5 years than any other time in my lifetime or yours (I haven't checked the numbers, but I'd image even averaging in the "tank" years, they've set an 8 year high in W/L record at this point) due to quality hires and open wallets.

I want Bryce and will be dissappointed if they don't get him. But to expect the Ricketts to be anything but what we knew they were walking in is just silly. They're investors and they're doing pretty well with this investment, both in terms of its success and thier profit.

tl;dr. Baseball is a business. You don't have to like it, but its true. The Ricketts' are good at business and the Cubs are more successful than ever, while the Ricketts are making tons of money, which is kind of what bankers do.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:09 pm

The revitalization of the neighborhood?


Ah, yes; Chicago's under-policed mini-Bourbon Street with the wonky crime stats to not scare away the suburban bros and bro-ettes and their precious, precious dollars. So deliciously and impressively revitalized now that there's a hotel, too.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bull » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:23 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
The revitalization of the neighborhood?


Ah, yes; Chicago's under-policed mini-Bourbon Street with the wonky crime stats to not scare away the suburban bros and bro-ettes and their precious, precious dollars. So deliciously and impressively revitalized now that there's a hotel, too.


I'm very satisfied that that is the criticism you chose to offer.

Doesn't really take away from my point. May add to it.

I'm not an expert on the situation by any means, but its pretty clear to me that business people gonna business.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:38 pm

Bull wrote:but its pretty clear to me that business people gonna business.


Yeah, and it sucks.

Nobody is realistically expecting a sports owner to run at a loss and just spend whatever without any consideration to the return...but the flipside of that is that it's absolute horse horsefeathers that one of the most profitable teams, with things like already obscene ticket prices, goes out of its way to cry poor (IMO past the point of the usual negotiation wankery), as if they're struggling to turn ANY kind of profit. It's garbage to have to swallow that they can't figure out how to sign a generational talent because of a "woe is me; excuse me as I dab my eyes with these crisp c-notes" narrative because of horsefeathers they decided to dump their money into that's only tangentially related to the team (ie-all of the Wrigleyville stuff outside of renovating the ballpark and creating a non-joke FO setup), and because the city wasn't suckered into footing the bill for as much of it as possible.

The BS they spouted before was that all of this would result in more money for the team, but now the exact opposite is happening....meanwhile the ticket prices will continue to rise, the neighborhood will continue to become more and more of a horsefeathers ass, generic, Buffalo Wild Wings-style bacchanal, and whatever godforsaken TV deal setup they end up with will likely cost fans a ridiculous amount and be a gigantic pain in the ass.

Woo- horsefeathering -hoo.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:56 pm

Basically there at least used to be SOME owners who seemed to view owning a sports team as a gigantic ego-stroke for which they were willing to forgo at least some of the strict expectations of things like quarterly reports and huge profit margins. Not that that they were maniacs willing to always run things for a loss, but they stood out in contrast from the cheap owners. Now it feels like everyone is trying to be a cheap owner; yeah, it's a sliding scale of how cheap they are, but man, the bouts of horsefeathers YOU spending were terrifying and exciting, and something that I long yearned for the Cubs to be, and this FA class seems like it's custom-made for that kind of spending, yet nobody is stepping up. It sucks. The business of baseball sucks right now.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby squally1313 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:05 pm

The Ricketts bought the Cubs, Wrigley, and 25% of Comcast for $900m in 2009. For simplicity, let's say they just bought the Cubs for $900m. In 2018, Forbes estimated the Cubs were worth $2.8b. With a B. So, no, I don't give a horsefeathers how much money they are or aren't making on a year to year basis.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bertz » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:20 pm

If the Ricketts don't want us to complain, one very simple solution is to show us a top line budget.

I think the issue isn't that the team isn't spending a lot, it's that we know revenues are rising substantially (because most of that info is public), while payroll, the primary driver of expense, is rising modestly in comparison. Non player costs are surely higher than ever before, but there's not really evidence that they're making up the whole difference. Servers and analysts and such are expensive to be sure, but we're talking a Daniel Descalso sized hole in the budget, not a Bryce Harper sized one. Several years ago Ricketts said that money coming in from baseball sources would go towards baseball ops. That doesn't appear to be happening. There's three possible explanations for what IS happening: 1. The Ricketts Family is pocketing a bunch of cash 2. Baseball revenue is being used on a non baseball ops expense (renovations or debt servicing most likely) 3. There is some legit baseball expense that we're all vastly understating (it would have to be revenue sharing, considering the magnitude). #3 is certainly possible, but #1 or #2 are far more likely.

I will say I'm not going to complain about the changes to the neighborhood. The IO and Salt & Pepper are the only things that have gone that I would consider at all to be a loss. And I like Gallaghet Way enough that I'm fine with the trade off.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Brian » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:34 pm

I don't know what is going on, but I'm starting to become a conspiracy theorist. All the stories last off-season were about the teams that were re-setting their luxury tax, or making sure they don't go into it so they could be prepared to go wild this off-season, and now crickets.

Some fun luxury tax facts -

- Last year was the first year the Yankees didn't pay in its existence (since 2003)
- Last year was the lowest total for all teams since the first year (2018 14,337,188 - 2003 11,798,357)
- The Yankees have paid about %62 of the total tax collected
- The Yankees and Dodgers combined have paid %89 of it
- The single most paid by a team is $43,567,472 by the 2015 Dodgers

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:38 pm

Brian wrote:I don't know what is going on, but I'm starting to become a conspiracy theorist.


What's the conspiracy theory?
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:45 pm

for the last time, the % goes AFTER the numbers
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:46 pm

sorry, been yelling at random kids and forgot who I was talking to
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:47 pm

Those long-winded lectures about how it’s a business and they can’t possibly not make a cash profit always ignore the insane appreciation sports team have. We could have been having $400m payrolls all along, Ricketts could still sell the team tomorrow and make a comfortable profit on his investment.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Bull wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The revitalization of the neighborhood?


Ah, yes; Chicago's under-policed mini-Bourbon Street with the wonky crime stats to not scare away the suburban bros and bro-ettes and their precious, precious dollars. So deliciously and impressively revitalized now that there's a hotel, too.


I'm very satisfied that that is the criticism you chose to offer.

Doesn't really take away from my point. May add to it.

I'm not an expert on the situation by any means, but its pretty clear to me that business people gonna business.


I don’t think you want him to address the that mean old Sam Zell is why the Ricketts couldn’t spent argument
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:00 pm

Bertz wrote:I will say I'm not going to complain about the changes to the neighborhood. The IO and Salt & Pepper are the only things that have gone that I would consider at all to be a loss. And I like Gallaghet Way enough that I'm fine with the trade off.


Personally, I'm not bemoaning the neighborhood as if some great old part of Chicago was lost; it was horsefeathers then and it's horsefeathers now. It just basically moved sideways to a type of horsefeathers with a glossy coat of paint that makes everything more expensive.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby CubinNY » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:02 pm

It’s another form of collusion. The owners have decided to limit themselves and act as one with regard to total salary. George Steinbrenner is long dead. It’s about maximizing profit. I don’t think they care about individual huge contracts, but they do care about the total amount of payroll for each team. The Ricketts are on board if not the leader of the group.

Baseball isn’t a business, it’s exempt from antitrust laws. It’s a club that makes obscene amounts of money for those in the club.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:27 pm

This has nothing to do with this topic, but I never realized how boring our offseason was after winning the World Series, probably because I wasn't paying attention and figured there was nothing needed any way.

But we traded Soler for Wade Davis. That was about it. I suppose we also signed Jon Jay.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby BigSlick » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:03 pm

I'm gonna need the Cubs to do something exciting because there are no sports I care about until opening day at this point and the Bears horrible loss can't be all I chew on.

So get on it.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:45 pm

Bull wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:there are lots of businesses. owning a sports team is not a business.


I don't know what to do with this. If you mean "owning a sports team shouldn't be a business," I can go along - but only so far.

But that's just not realistic. Maybe I have some sort of strange Stockholm Syndrome from following the Cubs during Tribune ownership, but I don't see how its anything but a business.

**I'm not a businessman, so forgive me if I misuse some terms**

Have we forgotten the whole saga of tribune ownership, and underspending? Tribune in bankruptcy and selling the team? Sam Zell and the resrictions put on the Rickett's as far as requiring a certain debt load (if I'm remembering correctly)? The revitalization of the neighborhood?

As much of a fan as Ricketts might be, you can't be naive enough to think that someone with a background in BANKING AND INVESMENTS would go through countless hours of meetings, fights with the neighborhood, the rooftops, and the city if they didn't think it would gain them a profit. These people live life by ROI. And all the other owners are business owners as well.

I don't have to like them. I don't have to like big business, but to fail to recognize that an asset acquired for nearly a billion dollars is anything but big business is somewhere between gullible and dense.

Churchill said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others. I feel the same way about capitalism. It is the worst economic system, except all the others. It really is the worst. but its what we have, and to expect people who have played that system for generations, and have invested the time and energy they have in it to not turn a HEFTY profit is to fail to understand the world around you. I wouldn't be surprised if they are leading the way on collusion. I'd image the penalties on baseball collusion will be much less than the same behavior in the banking industry and the Ricketts' know it.

That said, the Cubs have a top 5 payroll, will continue have one. They have been more competitive this last 5 years than any other time in my lifetime or yours (I haven't checked the numbers, but I'd image even averaging in the "tank" years, they've set an 8 year high in W/L record at this point) due to quality hires and open wallets.

I want Bryce and will be dissappointed if they don't get him. But to expect the Ricketts to be anything but what we knew they were walking in is just silly. They're investors and they're doing pretty well with this investment, both in terms of its success and thier profit.

tl;dr. Baseball is a business. You don't have to like it, but its true. The Ricketts' are good at business and the Cubs are more successful than ever, while the Ricketts are making tons of money, which is kind of what bankers do.


The goal of owning a business is to make money.

The goal of owning a sports team is to win titles.

If you want to make money, spend your $900 million owning a profitable business.

If you want to own a sports team, do everything you can to win a title.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:57 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:
Bull wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:there are lots of businesses. owning a sports team is not a business.


I don't know what to do with this. If you mean "owning a sports team shouldn't be a business," I can go along - but only so far.

But that's just not realistic. Maybe I have some sort of strange Stockholm Syndrome from following the Cubs during Tribune ownership, but I don't see how its anything but a business.

**I'm not a businessman, so forgive me if I misuse some terms**

Have we forgotten the whole saga of tribune ownership, and underspending? Tribune in bankruptcy and selling the team? Sam Zell and the resrictions put on the Rickett's as far as requiring a certain debt load (if I'm remembering correctly)? The revitalization of the neighborhood?

As much of a fan as Ricketts might be, you can't be naive enough to think that someone with a background in BANKING AND INVESMENTS would go through countless hours of meetings, fights with the neighborhood, the rooftops, and the city if they didn't think it would gain them a profit. These people live life by ROI. And all the other owners are business owners as well.

I don't have to like them. I don't have to like big business, but to fail to recognize that an asset acquired for nearly a billion dollars is anything but big business is somewhere between gullible and dense.

Churchill said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others. I feel the same way about capitalism. It is the worst economic system, except all the others. It really is the worst. but its what we have, and to expect people who have played that system for generations, and have invested the time and energy they have in it to not turn a HEFTY profit is to fail to understand the world around you. I wouldn't be surprised if they are leading the way on collusion. I'd image the penalties on baseball collusion will be much less than the same behavior in the banking industry and the Ricketts' know it.

That said, the Cubs have a top 5 payroll, will continue have one. They have been more competitive this last 5 years than any other time in my lifetime or yours (I haven't checked the numbers, but I'd image even averaging in the "tank" years, they've set an 8 year high in W/L record at this point) due to quality hires and open wallets.

I want Bryce and will be dissappointed if they don't get him. But to expect the Ricketts to be anything but what we knew they were walking in is just silly. They're investors and they're doing pretty well with this investment, both in terms of its success and thier profit.

tl;dr. Baseball is a business. You don't have to like it, but its true. The Ricketts' are good at business and the Cubs are more successful than ever, while the Ricketts are making tons of money, which is kind of what bankers do.


The goal of owning a business is to make money.

The goal of owning a sports team is to win titles.

If you want to make money, spend your $900 million owning a profitable business.

If you want to own a sports team, do everything you can to win a title.


The Packers are the only franchise in pro sports who get to just care about making money then. Screw them.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby chopsx9 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:18 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:
Bull wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:there are lots of businesses. owning a sports team is not a business.




That said, the Cubs have a top 5 payroll, will continue have one. They have been more competitive this last 5 years than any other time in my lifetime or yours (I haven't checked the numbers, but I'd image even averaging in the "tank" years, they've set an 8 year high in W/L record at this point) due to quality hires and open wallets.

I want Bryce and will be dissappointed if they don't get him. But to expect the Ricketts to be anything but what we knew they were walking in is just silly. They're investors and they're doing pretty well with this investment, both in terms of its success and thier profit.

tl;dr. Baseball is a business. You don't have to like it, but its true. The Ricketts' are good at business and the Cubs are more successful than ever, while the Ricketts are making tons of money, which is kind of what bankers do.


The goal of owning a business is to make money.

The goal of owning a sports team is to win titles.

If you want to make money, spend your $900 million owning a profitable business.

If you want to own a sports team, do everything you can to win a title.


You're making assumptions.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:31 pm

squally1313 wrote:The Ricketts bought the Cubs, Wrigley, and 25% of Comcast for $900m in 2009. For simplicity, let's say they just bought the Cubs for $900m. In 2018, Forbes estimated the Cubs were worth $2.8b. With a B. So, no, I don't give a horsefeathers how much money they are or aren't making on a year to year basis.

I certainly agree that they obviously have the money/net worth to go do whatever they want (even if they had to tap in to personal money vs just Cubs "business" money). But this is all a paper gain, they don't have $2B in cash all the sudden. We know MLB has lending limits/ratios teams can't exceed so there are restrictions for them to just go lend against their paper gain (which is a whole other discussion and we can argue if that's stupid or good). It's possible they've maxed out what they can borrow going by MLB rules and spent that money on things like the renovations, neighborhood projects, ST facility, Dominican facility, etc. so maybe they are tight from a cash flow perspective because maybe those projects cost more money, aren't coming on line as fast as they thought or not returning what they projected (or maybe they are just being plain greedy and pocketing money). Which is pretty dumb and poor planning knowing this offseason was coming and they certainly can dump personal money in, you'd assume, if they really wanted to make something happen. I'm not defending them by any means, just trying to figure out what the hell could be going on.
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