The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby champaignchris » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:59 pm

This offseason is so weird. Obviously not done yet, but we’re only about 5 weeks to Spring Training. So what’s really going on? I see three options...

1. The front office is blowing smoke up the media’s ass, and they sign Harper and/or make some other “go for it” moves in the last few weeks before the Spring; or
2. There was some serious miscommunication between ownership and the front office regarding payroll (or maybe ownership changed its mind) which caused the front office to make moves under the assumption they’d be able to go after Harper and are now finding out that ownership is putting on the brakes; or
3. Something got seriously horsefeathers up and the Cubs actually are under some unexpected financial constraints.

Because the combination of moves leading into the offseason, plus the relatively light cost of first year luxury tax penalties, plus the numerous opportunities that will be coming up in the next two years to slash payroll, plus the relatively light free agent pool in 2020 means that nothing else makes sense.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:51 pm

The Cubs would love a shot at Harper, though ownership approval continues to appear unlikely, sources say.


https://theathletic.com/759967/2019/01/ ... ce-harper/

So either Theo and the FO is leaking this to publicly put pressure on the Ricketts for such a move (which is a whole other issue if there’s division between the FO/Theo side and ownership/business side) or they are playing it like this to throw other teams off the scent or something? Or I guess Rosenthal’s “source” doesn’t know what he/she is talking about or is made up/Boras.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:56 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
The Cubs would love a shot at Harper, though ownership approval continues to appear unlikely, sources say.


https://theathletic.com/759967/2019/01/ ... ce-harper/

So either Theo and the FO is leaking this to publicly put pressure on the Ricketts for such a move (which is a whole other issue if there’s division between the FO/Theo side and ownership/business side) or they are playing it like this to throw other teams off the scent or something? Or I guess Rosenthal’s “source” doesn’t know what he/she is talking about or is made up/Boras.


Is ownership not included when saying “the Cubs?” How’s that one work? Say the Cubs’ FO if you want a legit divide! Wording like this is not an accident, it’s just a different way of telling the same story as the Phillies and White Sox
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:58 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:or they are playing it like this to throw other teams off the scent or something?


This line of thinking makes less and less sense every day that this debacle drags on. How does leaking the idea that there is potentially a rift between the FO and ownership help them, or "throw other teams off the scent?"

Everyone else, apparently: "Wow, if Bryce Harper leads to the vaunted Cubs front office and their horrible owners embarrassingly proxy slap-fighting via lame sports media leaks, he must be too toxic to sign! Better stay away!"

Drunken Theo: "YOINK."
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby SouthSideRyan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:18 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Brian wrote:Yeah I thought it was this one too, and I was so looking forward to new Ryan Dempster content.


His Harry Caray call of the Bote grand slam walk off will leave you in stitches!!!


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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby champaignchris » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:39 pm

The front office having the rug pulled out from under them by ownership would make some sort of sense out of what we've seen (or not seen, rather) this off season. As has been said a number of times in this thread, there are several transactions the Cubs front office should obviously not have done if those transactions were going to prevent the team from pursuing Harper.

And if Theo had the "all clear" to pursue Harper right up until early November, I can certainly see why ownership changing its mind at that late date would cause a rift.

Is it time for the gorilla suit?
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:46 pm

Yeah; Theo's relatively horsefeathers pitcher track record aside, I just can't see the FO trading for Kintzler if they had any inkling the wallet was going to be suddenly snapped shut.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:51 pm

“Theo blew all his money on meh pitching and now we can’t afford Harper” is still by far the simplest explanation for everything we are seeing
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Brian » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:55 pm

There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 pm

Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.


There (arguably) is if they're genuinely concerned about the starting rotation. I could, unfortunately, see them figuring/hoping the offensive side of things bounces back, so they decided to use their limited resources on the area of greatest concern. Given that Theo kinda sucks at pitchers...yeah, it sadly makes sense.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby squally1313 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 pm

Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.


And even on the small chance that it is, you can still fix that! if the Cubs felt it was incredibly important to pick up the Hamels option at that point, that means they thought they were getting a good deal, and he'd be worth more on the open market. That means he still is. Yes, he can block trades to 20 teams, but you know the 10 teams that are options would be contenders. If that doesn't work, Hamels and Quintana are projected to be basically identical pitchers next year. Quintana definitely has value. Go save yourself that money.

I can understand that the Ricketts may be frustrated based on the last couple years. The plan was waves of homegrown talent. The team won 97 games in 2015, and then went out and signed the most expensive hitter on the market. Last year, we signed the most expensive pitcher on the market. Now they're asking to sign the biggest contract of all time. Neither has worked out so far, and it doesn't look great going forward. It's a legit criticism. But it shouldn't keep them from Bryce. Or from trusting Theo.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bluescale » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:11 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.


There (arguably) is if they're genuinely concerned about the starting rotation.


Even if you're worried about the rotation, I have a hard time being convinced that Hamels is the solution at $20M. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried about repeat of 2017 John Lackey.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Bluescale wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.


There (arguably) is if they're genuinely concerned about the starting rotation.


Even if you're worried about the rotation, I have a hard time being convinced that Hamels is the solution at $20M. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried about repeat of 2017 John Lackey.


Oh, I completely agree; personally, I didn't want them to bring back Hamels, and I have a real fear he's going to mostly suck this season. I'm just saying I get why Epstein would effectively panic and go that route (because he kinda sucks more often than we'd like at targeting pitchers).
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:19 pm

They have to be thinking that Hamels is a near lock for 30 starts and 3+, maybe 4+ WAR. Otherwise they're in the category where a tactical buy-low addition gets you really close to Hamels production. To quote myself since literally nothing has happened since then:

I have a hard time understanding why you bring back Hamels if you're stifled financially. If you successfully bring in Harper(and it's easy to do at the 246 mark without Hamels' contract), then the remaining spots on the roster needing filled(pre-Hamels) are *prime candidates* for the type of outside the box thinking that you'd need for upgrading on the cheap. 5th/6th starter, bullpen arms, backup C, an infielder to play SS, etc. I mean, it's cherry picking, but Anibal Sanchez, Jeremy Hellickson, and old pal Trevor Cahill were league average starters for a combined 4 million and change. Erik Kratz was a minor league signing last offseason, outside of Cozart getting signed to play 3B no SS made 3 million in free agency last year, and we all know how good relievers come and go like the wind regardless of their origin. Harper's productivity gives you the most cost certainty if you're dealing with a limited budget, and he also more easily enables you to make a trade of Happ/Almora too, unlike if you're taking a gamble on Timmy Waiverclaim where you'd like the depth.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:25 pm

Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.

The SP needs reasoning has already been laid out and I agree with it. But picking up Hamels option also let us dump $7 million with trading Smyly (the Rangers were on the hook for the buyout of Hamels option for $5-7 mil). I really look at that as it’s own deal and Hamels only costing $13 million. We couldn’t have just dumped Smyly’s $7 mil this year for nothing, imo, had we not excercised Hamels option it would have cost prospects or something to move Smyly. So we still would’ve been stuck with his $7 million + however many millions it would’ve cost for a SP FA and in the end we probably end up spending around $20 million for Smyly + FA starter (I doubt we’d go in to the year with Smyly/Monty as the 5/6 starters). Lance Lynn got $10 mil a year, Harvey got $11 million, etc.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Brian » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:37 pm

Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.


1. Tyler Chatwood
2. Steve Cishek
3. Brian Duensing
4. Carl Edwards Jr.
5. Brandon Kintzler
6. Mike Montgomery
7. Pedro Strop

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby UMFan83 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:41 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.


And even on the small chance that it is, you can still fix that! if the Cubs felt it was incredibly important to pick up the Hamels option at that point, that means they thought they were getting a good deal, and he'd be worth more on the open market. That means he still is. Yes, he can block trades to 20 teams, but you know the 10 teams that are options would be contenders. If that doesn't work, Hamels and Quintana are projected to be basically identical pitchers next year. Quintana definitely has value. Go save yourself that money.

I can understand that the Ricketts may be frustrated based on the last couple years. The plan was waves of homegrown talent. The team won 97 games in 2015, and then went out and signed the most expensive hitter on the market. Last year, we signed the most expensive pitcher on the market. Now they're asking to sign the biggest contract of all time. Neither has worked out so far, and it doesn't look great going forward. It's a legit criticism. But it shouldn't keep them from Bryce. Or from trusting Theo.


The thing that eats at me is that I was thinking/hoping we'd have rebuilt at least some portion of our farm system by now. Maybe I'm asking too much for a team thats in the 5th year of a 'win now' cycle but I'm not expecting 2014 levels of talent. If we really are cash strapped, also having a broke farm system is a death blow.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby HawkeTrackler » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:47 pm

Brian wrote:Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.


1. Tyler Chatwood
2. Steve Cishek
3. Brian Duensing
4. Carl Edwards Jr.
5. Brandon Kintzler
6. Mike Montgomery
7. Pedro Strop

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too


yikes
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:48 pm

Brian wrote:Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.


1. Tyler Chatwood
2. Steve Cishek
3. Brian Duensing
4. Carl Edwards Jr.
5. Brandon Kintzler
6. Mike Montgomery
7. Pedro Strop

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too

I’d be pretty shocked if Duensing is on the opening day roster. Not that I’m any more confident in them but I bet his spot is the Iowa shuttle spot for Webster, Wick, Mekkes, Maples, Rosario, Ryan, etc. But yes, we need to add at least 1 real option there yet.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Brian wrote:Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.


1. Tyler Chatwood
2. Steve Cishek
3. Brian Duensing
4. Carl Edwards Jr.
5. Brandon Kintzler
6. Mike Montgomery
7. Pedro Strop

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too


4 very good relievers, 2 dead weights and the hope that Chatwood's brain isn't broken anymore, with Morrow on his way back. I want one more reliever personally, but unless someone else goes down(looking at you Carl) I think it's fine.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:52 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Brian wrote:There is still no logical explanation for picking up Hamels option if money is that tight.


And even on the small chance that it is, you can still fix that! if the Cubs felt it was incredibly important to pick up the Hamels option at that point, that means they thought they were getting a good deal, and he'd be worth more on the open market. That means he still is. Yes, he can block trades to 20 teams, but you know the 10 teams that are options would be contenders. If that doesn't work, Hamels and Quintana are projected to be basically identical pitchers next year. Quintana definitely has value. Go save yourself that money.

I can understand that the Ricketts may be frustrated based on the last couple years. The plan was waves of homegrown talent. The team won 97 games in 2015, and then went out and signed the most expensive hitter on the market. Last year, we signed the most expensive pitcher on the market. Now they're asking to sign the biggest contract of all time. Neither has worked out so far, and it doesn't look great going forward. It's a legit criticism. But it shouldn't keep them from Bryce. Or from trusting Theo.


The thing that eats at me is that I was thinking/hoping we'd have rebuilt at least some portion of our farm system by now. Maybe I'm asking too much for a team thats in the 5th year of a 'win now' cycle but I'm not expecting 2014 levels of talent. If we really are cash strapped, also having a broke farm system is a death blow.

Adbert going down last year really sucked, yeah we probably should have a little more depth and options at this point even given the cycle but if he doesn’t get hurt he definitely gets a chance to make some starts with Yu and Chatwood getting hurt/sucking and if he looks good maybe we don’t do Hamels option this year or we feel good about him in a relief role or something.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Brian wrote:Season starts today, this is the pen... fun.


1. Tyler Chatwood
2. Steve Cishek
3. Brian Duensing
4. Carl Edwards Jr.
5. Brandon Kintzler
6. Mike Montgomery
7. Pedro Strop

edit - Kyle Ryan got a major league deal so maybe him too


4 very good relievers, 2 dead weights and the hope that Chatwood's brain isn't broken anymore, with Morrow on his way back. I want one more reliever personally, but unless someone else goes down(looking at you Carl) I think it's fine.


[Narrator]It wasn't.[/Narrator]
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 pm

NL Central standings, August 2019. Camera scrolls past Cardinals and DNLCCVB before stopping on the Cubs.

*record scratch*

Yeah, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I ended up in this situation. It all started with a couple of pitchers.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:46 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:NL Central standings, August 2019. Camera scrolls past Cardinals and DNLCCVB before stopping on the Cubs.

*record scratch*

Yeah, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I ended up in this situation. It all started with a couple of pitchers.

horsefeathers it, that’s some mighty fine doom bonnering

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

Postby Bear Cub » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:24 am

Free agent relief pitchers still available:
Greg Holland
Cody Allen
Adam Ottavino
Sergio Romo
Brad Brach
Justin Wilson
Alex Wilson
Hunter Strickland
A.J. Ramos
Jake Diekman
Sam Howard

Can we afford any of these guys? Probably not.
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