Hendricks extended through 2023

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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:46 pm

Regular Show wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Baez having more bat speed than anyone is not the same as having bat speed to spare. His swing is not particularly compact and losing a tick to merely be 'elite' bat speed could have significant consequences. Players who lean that hard on their physical gifts to be really good don't have extra room for error against decline.


That's not me exactly saying that -- I actually took that from a scout. He said he has elite bat speed (possibly the best in MLB) and has "bat speed to spare". Keith Law or Kiley McDaniel said that his pronounced bat wrap earlier in his career actually helped him somewhat because his bat was so violent and quick. Normally, a bat wrap is a bad thing and Baez has toned that down.

I disagree with you here. His swing isn't compact, but he has great hands and can adjust and reach pitches that some hitters on this team can't get to or do anything with. Scouts and experts consistently say his batspeed is among the best so it's hard to figure out what "losing a tick" means for someone like him. It's hard to predict how he'll do once his bat slows down, but I'm not worried about Baez. I'd be way more concerned about other hitters on this team.


It's not extra hard to figure out how Baez's high level physical gifts will age, it's guesswork for experts and idiots like us alike. The point is he doesn't get extra credit in the aging department because of them when he needs to use those physical gifts dialed up to 11 to even be a passable major leaguer. He has one season with a wOBA above .326 and a wRC+ above 100. His career batting line's closest Cubs peer is Almora.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:46 pm

Regular Show wrote:KB worries me and looks awful at the plate sometimes (Yes, I know every player looks bad at the plate sometimes). Good pitchers can expose him and get him out. He still sucks against good changeups and sliders down and away. You execute a good strategy and you can get KB out.


What kind of bizarro world do you live in where KB looks awful at the plate sometimes, good pitchers can expose him and get him out, sucks against good offspeed stuff and can be stopped via good strategy, but that all doesn't apply to Javy Baez?
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Regular Show » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:55 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Baez having more bat speed than anyone is not the same as having bat speed to spare. His swing is not particularly compact and losing a tick to merely be 'elite' bat speed could have significant consequences. Players who lean that hard on their physical gifts to be really good don't have extra room for error against decline.


That's not me exactly saying that -- I actually took that from a scout. He said he has elite bat speed (possibly the best in MLB) and has "bat speed to spare". Keith Law or Kiley McDaniel said that his pronounced bat wrap earlier in his career actually helped him somewhat because his bat was so violent and quick. Normally, a bat wrap is a bad thing and Baez has toned that down.

I disagree with you here. His swing isn't compact, but he has great hands and can adjust and reach pitches that some hitters on this team can't get to or do anything with. Scouts and experts consistently say his batspeed is among the best so it's hard to figure out what "losing a tick" means for someone like him. It's hard to predict how he'll do once his bat slows down, but I'm not worried about Baez. I'd be way more concerned about other hitters on this team.


It's not extra hard to figure out how Baez's high level physical gifts will age, it's guesswork for experts and idiots like us alike. The point is he doesn't get extra credit in the aging department because of them when he needs to use those physical gifts dialed up to 11 to even be a passable major leaguer. He has one season with a wOBA above .326 and a wRC+ above 100. His career batting line's closest Cubs peer is Almora.


We'll have to agree to disagree here. I wouldn't say he needs those physical gifts to just be "passable". His track level at the big league level isn't amazing, but he's been improving every season on offense. Again, his main problem is lack of plate discipline and swinging at bad pitches out of the zone. I think he'll age well and that his batspeed slowing down won't affect him too much as long as his swing doesn't get longer/plate discipline gets even worse.

I'll admit that the way he plays and how extreme he is on the basepaths could affect him. He definitely has to tone it down and not play so recklessly as he gets older.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Regular Show » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:59 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Regular Show wrote:KB worries me and looks awful at the plate sometimes (Yes, I know every player looks bad at the plate sometimes). Good pitchers can expose him and get him out. He still sucks against good changeups and sliders down and away. You execute a good strategy and you can get KB out.


What kind of bizarro world do you live in where KB looks awful at the plate sometimes, good pitchers can expose him and get him out, sucks against good offspeed stuff and can be stopped via good strategy, but that all doesn't apply to Javy Baez?


Oh, it applies to Baez too. I've said that about Baez many times. Plate discipline problems encompass all that.

KB is the superior hitter. That was never in question and he absolutely deserves more money. He is the better player. I'm just concerned about how he'll do after 30 and how injuries and age might affect him.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby squally1313 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:09 pm

Regular Show wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree here. I wouldn't say he needs those physical gifts to just be "passable". His track level at the big league level isn't amazing, but he's been improving every season on offense. Again, his main problem is lack of plate discipline and swinging at bad pitches out of the zone. I think he'll age well and that his batspeed slowing down won't affect him too much as long as his swing doesn't get longer/plate discipline gets even worse.


Look, I love Javy as much as anyone, but he finished 16th in baseball in BABIP last year, and 8th in HR/FB%. He was 53rd in line drive percentage, and he was 92nd in hard hit percentage. The last two aren't the flukes.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Bluescale » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:33 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:I would not extend Baez without extending Bryant first.


There's no reason extending Baez needs to be linked to extending Bryant. Ideally you sign them both to long term contracts, but since Baez is much more likely to sign an extension than Bryant, you extend him when you can. Unless you're in the camp that extending Baez is a bad decision, there's no reason to wait for Bryant to sign an extension first.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby squally1313 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:52 pm

Bluescale wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:I would not extend Baez without extending Bryant first.


There's no reason extending Baez needs to be linked to extending Bryant. Ideally you sign them both to long term contracts, but since Baez is much more likely to sign an extension than Bryant, you extend him when you can. Unless you're in the camp that extending Baez is a bad decision, there's no reason to wait for Bryant to sign an extension first.


Agreed. Of course there's a number that makes sense for Baez, I just don't know if 'fresh off his probably fluky best season ever' is the time to start those discussions.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Bluescale » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:02 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Bluescale wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:I would not extend Baez without extending Bryant first.


There's no reason extending Baez needs to be linked to extending Bryant. Ideally you sign them both to long term contracts, but since Baez is much more likely to sign an extension than Bryant, you extend him when you can. Unless you're in the camp that extending Baez is a bad decision, there's no reason to wait for Bryant to sign an extension first.


Agreed. Of course there's a number that makes sense for Baez, I just don't know if 'fresh off his probably fluky best season ever' is the time to start those discussions.


I agree. He's 26 years old at this point, so I think it'd make sense to see what he can do this season. If he's a 4+ WAR player, then you give him something pretty decent. If he's a 2 WAR player, you reevaluate.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Regular Show » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:17 pm

Bluescale wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Bluescale wrote:
There's no reason extending Baez needs to be linked to extending Bryant. Ideally you sign them both to long term contracts, but since Baez is much more likely to sign an extension than Bryant, you extend him when you can. Unless you're in the camp that extending Baez is a bad decision, there's no reason to wait for Bryant to sign an extension first.


Agreed. Of course there's a number that makes sense for Baez, I just don't know if 'fresh off his probably fluky best season ever' is the time to start those discussions.


I agree. He's 26 years old at this point, so I think it'd make sense to see what he can do this season. If he's a 4+ WAR player, then you give him something pretty decent. If he's a 2 WAR player, you reevaluate.


I really think he's going to fluctuate between 2-5 WAR for the next few years (unless he truly breaks out and reaches a new level). Not sure what happens, but I feel like Baez won't have as good a year as last season. I still think we should sign him to an extension and I believe the Cubs have approached him about one according to an article in The Athletic.

Yeah, it's probably not the best time to start those discussions with Baez, but the best time to start those discussions was probably two offseasons ago.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Bull » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:29 pm

First, I almost forgot this thread is about the Hendrix extension. With that in mind, I would like to say this is not the time to extend Baez.

Second, I feel like Javy is likely to injure himself with his 125% play at some point in the next few years, unless is actually freezing and unfreezing time.



Actually, the more I think about it, the simplest answer is that he is freezing and unfreezing time and that somewhere his parents are insisting that he not do his best so as not to arouse suspicions, ala dash of the incredibles.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:34 pm

Bull wrote:Actually, the more I think about it, the simplest answer is that he is freezing and unfreezing time and that somewhere his parents are insisting that he not do his best so as not to arouse suspicions, ala dash of the incredibles.


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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:57 pm

I just want it on the record that giving a bunch of guaranteed years to a pitcher you had under team control for two more years is a bad idea on principle, even if the money itself isn't bad. Just don't give pitchers guaranteed years when you don't have to.

Hello to everyone in four years looking back at this thread because "everybody liked the deal at the time, who could have known?"
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Brian » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:14 pm

Jon Lester and now Kyle Hendricks are players that I will never complain about their performance or a single cent they receive from the Cubs.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:50 pm

Bluescale wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:I would not extend Baez without extending Bryant first.


There's no reason extending Baez needs to be linked to extending Bryant. Ideally you sign them both to long term contracts, but since Baez is much more likely to sign an extension than Bryant, you extend him when you can. Unless you're in the camp that extending Baez is a bad decision, there's no reason to wait for Bryant to sign an extension first.


I’m not a big fan of extending anyone if Bryant doesn’t get done. Bryant makes this whole thing work, and last year forced some questions. That said, sequencing matters less than getting it done

It CAN make sense to lock Baez up to a 4-5 year deal after this season if he does well. I tend to agree he will be a 2-3 maybe even 4-5 WAR player through that span, so something like 4/48 with a chance to make it 5/65 or something might work.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby David » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:35 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:I just want it on the record that giving a bunch of guaranteed years to a pitcher you had under team control for two more years is a bad idea on principle, even if the money itself isn't bad. Just don't give pitchers guaranteed years when you don't have to.

Hello to everyone in four years looking back at this thread because "everybody liked the deal at the time, who could have known?"


Rewarding and paying your own good players for their great performance in years they were being underpaid is a good and cool thing to do on principle and teams should do more of it. Especially when it's their first big payday.

Owners need to stop artificially holding down salaries and this type of thing needs to happen more often to more players (even pitchers). It's not gonna kill our quest for a $/WAR trophy.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:54 pm

Brian wrote:Jon Lester and now Kyle Hendricks are players that I will never complain about their performance or a single cent they receive from the Cubs.


hell yeah
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:23 pm

Yeah, I'm not gonna gripe about anyone getting more money from these horsefeathering misers. Heyward may bum me out because I thought they were gonna get a dude busting out and instead he's just kind of a dude, but I love that the Ricketts have to shell out for every horsefeathering year like the dip horsefeathers they are, so he's basically a hero. Good for you, The Good Kyle.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby squally1313 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:49 pm

Agreed. Whatever discussions I have about future extensions for Baez, KB, etc, and whether or not they are 'good deals' is solely in the context of our owners being cheap, racist, lying pricks who will gladly use something like the Hendricks extension to justify not fielding a left fielder next year, and so in that regard, given that I prefer our team to be good, I will grudgingly play by these rules.

Big picture, I want Hendricks, Lester, and like 8 other guys to get 100% of the gate revenue for the next 4 years.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby CubinNY » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:34 pm

The joke is on all you [expletive]. The Ricketts aren't extending anyone else ever again.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:37 pm

CubinNY wrote:The joke is on all you [expletive]. The Ricketts aren't extending anyone else ever again.

#4MoreYears
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:49 pm

"Bad deals are actually good because it shows players we will reward them" is the new "Obviously we have money for Harper, if we didn't, Hamels' deal would be stupid."

I do like the owners having less money, sure.
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:30 pm

Extend that man!
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby JennieGarthAlgar » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:02 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:"Bad deals are actually good because it shows players we will reward them" is the new "Obviously we have money for Harper, if we didn't, Hamels' deal would be stupid."

I do like the owners having less money, sure.


So this is a bad deal now? I am confused
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby David » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:25 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:"Bad deals are actually good because it shows players we will reward them" is the new "Obviously we have money for Harper, if we didn't, Hamels' deal would be stupid."

I do like the owners having less money, sure.


get a load of this PTR shill over here
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Re: Hendricks extended through 2023

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:33 pm

"giving guaranteed years when you didn't have to" is also the same as "controlling his early 30s without having to guarantee his mid to late 30s".
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