Martin Maldonado to Cubs

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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Bertz » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:16 am

UMFan83 wrote:
Post Count Padder wrote:I know Monty has been bad and hurt this year but trading him straight up for a rental backup catcher is beyond horsefeathering stupid. I'm actually mad about this. Caratini has been solid as a backup and 2B has been a black hole and the pen is a mess but ok.


Yeah wtf this trade makes no horsefeathering sense


It's certainly not efficient, but think ultimately it's about opening up the roster spot more than anything. Monty was like 7th or 8th on the starter depth chart now, and has proven he sucks as a reliever. He was just kinda there taking up space in the pen. Between this and probably a phantom DL for Brach, they can recall Edwards and add a lefty reliever from outside the org.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Andy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:18 am

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:I bet it was because Monty and Maldonado's money matches up.

Think I saw the Royals are saving some $400K, but yeah that's probably a nonzero part of the reason.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Deeg » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:22 am

If they trade Vic, they damn well better get something pretty good. He can hit, is a switch-hitter decent from both sides, and his overall D and framing have really improved this season.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:30 am

Deeg wrote:If they trade Vic, they damn well better get something pretty good. He can hit, is a switch-hitter decent from both sides, and his overall D and framing have really improved this season.

I’m fine letting some team dream on him being a starting caliber catcher and selling highish. He has a career 87 wRC+, he’s most likely a career backup.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 am

Wonder if they were talking something like Monty, Vic, Happ, Amaya and some other prospects for Whit and Maldonado.

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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:18 am

Gross.
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Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:48 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Deeg wrote:If they trade Vic, they damn well better get something pretty good. He can hit, is a switch-hitter decent from both sides, and his overall D and framing have really improved this season.

I’m fine letting some team dream on him being a starting caliber catcher and selling highish. He has a career 87 wRC+, he’s most likely a career backup.
Dude he didn't have nearly enough career PA to give a horsefeathers about that number. I mean that's ridiculous. 260 PA.

He is killing it according to xwoba so hes earned that line. And he has shown some of the best plate discipline on the team as well with his zswing-oswing. Maybe some holes are being poked now but it's too early to write him off and not believe he can make the adjustments. As a prospect he put up solid lines at every level that he had a decent sample, including 2 stints at AAA with a 3/4/5 slash line.

I'm actually surprised you're so willing to write him off when he doesnt have huge red flags but you pined for Happ to get a shot even when he had an 80 wRC+ with a 30+ Krate in the supercharged PCL this year.

Steamer and zips even like him over Happ, FWIW
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Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:04 am

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Deeg wrote:If they trade Vic, they damn well better get something pretty good. He can hit, is a switch-hitter decent from both sides, and his overall D and framing have really improved this season.

I’m fine letting some team dream on him being a starting caliber catcher and selling highish. He has a career 87 wRC+, he’s most likely a career backup.
Dude he didn't have nearly enough career PA to give a horsefeathers about that number. I mean that's ridiculous. 260 PA.

He is killing it according to xwoba so hes earned that line. And he has shown some of the best plate discipline on the team as well with his zswing-oswing. Maybe some holes are being poked now but it's too early to write him off and not believe he can make the adjustments. As a prospect he put up solid lines at every level that he had a decent sample, including 2 stints at AAA with a 3/4/5 slash line.

I'm actually surprised you're so willing to write him off when he doesnt have huge red flags but you pined for Happ to get a shot even when he had an 80 wRC+ with a 30+ Krate in the supercharged PCL this year.

Steamer and zips even like him over Happ, FWIW

I certainly was wrong on Vic going in to the year, I wanted a backup C (ironically Maldonado was top of the list) and Vic has been really good and I hope he continues to do well. But Vic's value will probably never be higher and with Willy his path to playing time will be limited (assuming this really is a 10 day injury thing for him). If a team wants to pay up for Vic thinking he's a full time starter I'm not against moving him, I wouldn't just trade him to trade him. That was really my point, the answer to what Vic really is probably falls somewhere between what he's been for his career and what he's been this year. And I more wanted Happ to get a shot because of who he'd be taking ABs over (Almora, Descalso, Russell, Zagunis, etc). I also don't think the answer to improving the offense is giving Vic more catching time and putting WIlly in the OF, if we're going to do the 3 catcher thing.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Edith Cox » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:39 am

Theo is losing his fastball.

Hope this turns out to be more or becomes better than it looks on paper. I fully expected use to sell Monty for some IFA pool money or to fill out of bigger trade not to add a defensive catcher who can't hit. He's been terrible but the possibility of being a cost controlled SP the next two year should have had a hell of a lot more value than this.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Deeg » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:50 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Wonder if they were talking something like Monty, Vic, Happ, Amaya and some other prospects for Whit and Maldonado.



The starting point for Merrifield would probably be Schwarber and Hoerner, and that wouldn't be enough. That's not happening.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Bear Cub » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:19 am

This trade makes a trade for another lefty in the pen more likely.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:00 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Wonder if they were talking something like Monty, Vic, Happ, Amaya and some other prospects for Whit and Maldonado.


“We’d actually” is just tradesplaining
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Banedon » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:32 am

The important thing is...

Willson Traymor was right.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby squally1313 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Deeg wrote:If they trade Vic, they damn well better get something pretty good. He can hit, is a switch-hitter decent from both sides, and his overall D and framing have really improved this season.

I’m fine letting some team dream on him being a starting caliber catcher and selling highish. He has a career 87 wRC+, he’s most likely a career backup.

Steering clear of the whole Caratini/Happ discussion, but FWIW, here are the league average wRC+s for catchers the last few years:

2019: 88
2018: 84
2017: 89
2016: 87
2015: 85

Four more years of control on someone who has hit like an average catcher in a small sample size (and is showing a lot more this year in an even smaller sample size) isn't nothing. He may not work out with someone like the Giants given their catching situation, but I'm hoping he could bring back a reliable reliever.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby muntjack » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Deeg wrote:
The starting point for Merrifield would probably be Schwarber and Hoerner, and that wouldn't be enough. That's not happening.


Not attacking your point, but it's funny to me how many have written off (or are in the process of writing off) Schwarber, a pedigreed 26 year old with a career .340 wOBA/111 wRC+, and now he's being discussed as not enough to bring back a guy who at 26 hadn't reached the majors and was putting up a .308 wOBA and 81 RC+ in the Texas league.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:13 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:I’m fine letting some team dream on him being a starting caliber catcher and selling highish. He has a career 87 wRC+, he’s most likely a career backup.
Dude he didn't have nearly enough career PA to give a horsefeathers about that number. I mean that's ridiculous. 260 PA.

He is killing it according to xwoba so hes earned that line. And he has shown some of the best plate discipline on the team as well with his zswing-oswing. Maybe some holes are being poked now but it's too early to write him off and not believe he can make the adjustments. As a prospect he put up solid lines at every level that he had a decent sample, including 2 stints at AAA with a 3/4/5 slash line.

I'm actually surprised you're so willing to write him off when he doesnt have huge red flags but you pined for Happ to get a shot even when he had an 80 wRC+ with a 30+ Krate in the supercharged PCL this year.

Steamer and zips even like him over Happ, FWIW

I certainly was wrong on Vic going in to the year, I wanted a backup C (ironically Maldonado was top of the list) and Vic has been really good and I hope he continues to do well. But Vic's value will probably never be higher and with Willy his path to playing time will be limited (assuming this really is a 10 day injury thing for him). If a team wants to pay up for Vic thinking he's a full time starter I'm not against moving him, I wouldn't just trade him to trade him. That was really my point, the answer to what Vic really is probably falls somewhere between what he's been for his career and what he's been this year. And I more wanted Happ to get a shot because of who he'd be taking ABs over (Almora, Descalso, Russell, Zagunis, etc). I also don't think the answer to improving the offense is giving Vic more catching time and putting WIlly in the OF, if we're going to do the 3 catcher thing.


My disappointment would (so far this is all internet spec and I might be getting miffed for nothing) largely lie in handing the keys to the one of the worst receivers in the league whom hasn't shown much interest in improving his game. I'd rather pair Maldonado to mentor Caratini and improve on his above average game. Right now BP, statcorner, and FG rank him in the top 25, and his bat could be good enough to actually produce 3-4 war. Move Schwarber and put Contreras in LF. According to BR Schwarber has produced 3 WAR over 4 seasons. His bat just isn't valuable enough to cling to him, and his fielding is not good (yes I fell for his fielding last year, some might point out). At some point you have to stop waiting on the upside and recognize him for what hes been and it's not worth it. Putting Willy out there and Vic behind the dish might not improve the offense a lot but I dont think it would impact is negatively and we would get a boost in our walk rate, IMO, and put our pitchers in more favorable counts consistently. I think that would be big for those guys.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:19 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:My disappointment would (so far this is all internet spec and I might be getting miffed for nothing) largely lie in handing the keys to the one of the worst receivers in the league whom hasn't shown much interest in improving his game.


Are you talking about Willson Contreras? The converted infielder who has been the primary catcher the past four years? You are disappointed they handed the keys to him, 4 years ago? Four years they've largely spent in 1st place and been among the best teams in baseball. That disappoints you?
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby squally1313 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:37 pm

I like how everyone glosses over the whole 'Just convert Contreras to an outfielder! He'll be fine!' thing too.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:41 pm

squally1313 wrote:I like how everyone glosses over the whole 'Just convert Contreras to an outfielder! He'll be fine!' thing too.

He's shown no interest in getting better at catcher because all his interest lies in being the best left fielder he can be.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:41 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:My disappointment would (so far this is all internet spec and I might be getting miffed for nothing) largely lie in handing the keys to the one of the worst receivers in the league whom hasn't shown much interest in improving his game.


Are you talking about Willson Contreras? The converted infielder who has been the primary catcher the past four years? You are disappointed they handed the keys to him, 4 years ago? Four years they've largely spent in 1st place and been among the best teams in baseball. That disappoints you?


I don't really like him as a catcher and our pitching has degraded each year hes been our fulltime catcher. So, yes. He's had the keys. But they have an opportunity to hand those keys to a better defender. So I'll rephrase and say that I'll be disappointed if he retains those keys.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Tim » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:46 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:My disappointment would (so far this is all internet spec and I might be getting miffed for nothing) largely lie in handing the keys to the one of the worst receivers in the league whom hasn't shown much interest in improving his game.


Are you talking about Willson Contreras? The converted infielder who has been the primary catcher the past four years? You are disappointed they handed the keys to him, 4 years ago? Four years they've largely spent in 1st place and been among the best teams in baseball. That disappoints you?


I don't really like him as a catcher and our pitching has degraded each year hes been our fulltime catcher. So, yes. He's had the keys. But they have an opportunity to hand those keys to a better defender. So I'll rephrase and say that I'll be disappointed if he retains those keys.

by pretty much every account I've ever read, the guy works his ass off to get better and is very open to instruction. I'd be interested in where you are getting your info that he has no "desire" to improve. Or admit that's [expletive] and what you really mean to say is that he simply hasn't gotten better at that aspect of the game.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:48 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:I don't really like him as a catcher and our pitching has degraded each year hes been our fulltime catcher.


Team ERA- by year:

2017: 91 - T-4th in NL
2018: 91 - T-2nd in NL
2019: 93 - 4th in NL
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby squally1313 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:48 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:My disappointment would (so far this is all internet spec and I might be getting miffed for nothing) largely lie in handing the keys to the one of the worst receivers in the league whom hasn't shown much interest in improving his game.


Are you talking about Willson Contreras? The converted infielder who has been the primary catcher the past four years? You are disappointed they handed the keys to him, 4 years ago? Four years they've largely spent in 1st place and been among the best teams in baseball. That disappoints you?


I don't really like him as a catcher and our pitching has degraded each year hes been our fulltime catcher. So, yes. He's had the keys. But they have an opportunity to hand those keys to a better defender. So I'll rephrase and say that I'll be disappointed if he retains those keys.


Alright first off, let's throw out 'our pitching has degraded', because that's nonsense. Fairly positive he isn't responsible for Lester and Hendricks getting older, or Theo picking Yu over Jake, etc etc etc.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:50 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:My disappointment would (so far this is all internet spec and I might be getting miffed for nothing) largely lie in handing the keys to the one of the worst receivers in the league whom hasn't shown much interest in improving his game.


Are you talking about Willson Contreras? The converted infielder who has been the primary catcher the past four years? You are disappointed they handed the keys to him, 4 years ago? Four years they've largely spent in 1st place and been among the best teams in baseball. That disappoints you?


I don't really like him as a catcher and our pitching has degraded each year hes been our fulltime catcher. So, yes. He's had the keys. But they have an opportunity to hand those keys to a better defender. So I'll rephrase and say that I'll be disappointed if he retains those keys.

I think the pitching has gotten worse mostly because the best pitchers on the team are generally on the older side and many of them have gone through injuries.

There's an argument to be made that the results of pitching may be slightly better with somebody else back there, but there is no doubt the offense would take a hit and there is not one ounce of justification for claiming he hasn't shown much interest in improving his game.
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Re: Martin Maldonado to Cubs

Postby BigSlick » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:01 pm

Sending Montgomery for a back up is a fleecing for the Royals but what can you do? He’s been pretty bad and I’ve been beaten into submission by bad moves by the front office

Oh well
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