Happ is Back

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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:55 pm

itisallpartoftheplan wrote:We had an extra reliever when Collins came up for Mills, but next week we’ll need to make a move if Hamels comes back.

I thought about Collins going down too but Chatwood also won’t be available until Sunday at the earliest. We’d really be down 2 pen arms if Collins (or whoever) going down/IL’d is the move.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby d_money » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:10 pm

badger wrote:Then Theo has to admit that letting TLS go and signing Descalso was an epic failure on his part.

And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby BigSlick » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:13 pm

at this point i'm driven by bloodlust to see DeScalso thrown to the wolves more than anything that makes sense. just dfa him please
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:14 pm

d_money wrote:
badger wrote:Then Theo has to admit that letting TLS go and signing Descalso was an epic failure on his part.

And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Bote McBoteface » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:18 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:
badger wrote:Then Theo has to admit that letting TLS go and signing Descalso was an epic failure on his part.

And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.


Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby d_money » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:20 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:
badger wrote:Then Theo has to admit that letting TLS go and signing Descalso was an epic failure on his part.

And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.

35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:23 pm

d_money wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.

35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.

Zobrist, Ross, Lackey, Hammel x2, Cishek, Feldman, yes all very bad signings
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:24 pm

d_money wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.

35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.

It’s possible to admit and think it didn’t work out but still wasn’t a bad signing.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby snoodmonger » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:25 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.


Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:31 pm

snoodmonger wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.


Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

He probably breaks at some point anyways but it is interesting the thing they credit to breaking him is Joe going against the rules on handling him in that way in New York last year when he wasn’t supposed to pitch back to back or 3 in 4 days or whatever it was and Joe did it anyways. Maybe if Joe sticks to the rules he doesn’t break.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby snoodmonger » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:37 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

He probably breaks at some point anyways but it is interesting the thing they credit to breaking him is Joe going against the rules on handling him in that way in New York last year when he wasn’t supposed to pitch back to back or 3 in 4 days or whatever it was and Joe did it anyways. Maybe if Joe sticks to the rules he doesn’t break.


To be honest, I don't remember the circumstances that broke him.

Given his usage restrictions, though, I would have probably skipped closer signing and tried to use Strop or CJ last year. Obviously, knowing what we know now, that likely would have been equally disastrous, but maybe if we hadn't signed Morrow we would have had a chance to acquire someone at the deadline last year instead of counting on him.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby badger » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:38 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Maybe if Joe sticks to the rules he doesn’t break.


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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Andy » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:02 pm

snoodmonger wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.


Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

The minute he wasn't able to pitch the day after throwing 2 damn pitches in Miami because he had supposedly warmed up too much, I knew that one was a losing move.
Last edited by Andy on Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Andy wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

Kimbrel can’t be used that way either and is on the record as saying he doesn’t want to be a multi inning guy, fwiw.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Andy wrote:Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

It's flat out stupid to use closers that way in the first place, and it's going to ruin careers and be a thing of the past soon.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Andy » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:06 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Andy wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

Kimbrel can’t be used that way either and is on the record as saying he doesn’t want to be a multi inning guy, fwiw.

I'm not advocating it (obviously in an ideal world Strop would still be good and we could just go Cishek/Strop/Kimbrel), but Chapman was on the record saying he didn't want to do that either, and he still did.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:07 pm

snoodmonger wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

He probably breaks at some point anyways but it is interesting the thing they credit to breaking him is Joe going against the rules on handling him in that way in New York last year when he wasn’t supposed to pitch back to back or 3 in 4 days or whatever it was and Joe did it anyways. Maybe if Joe sticks to the rules he doesn’t break.


To be honest, I don't remember the circumstances that broke him.

Given his usage restrictions, though, I would have probably skipped closer signing and tried to use Strop or CJ last year. Obviously, knowing what we know now, that likely would have been equally disastrous, but maybe if we hadn't signed Morrow we would have had a chance to acquire someone at the deadline last year instead of counting on him.

It was the Sunday game against the Mets last year, the day after we won that extra inning game Farrell somehow pitched like 7 scoreless. Whatever rules they had laid out for Morrow (whether it was no back to back, 2 in 3 or 3 in 5 days or whatever) using him that Sunday broke the rules of using him and Joe used him (I believe it what even became a non-save situation) and they credit that day to being the day he actually hurt himself. Again he probably breaks anyways at some point but they had a plan on how to use him and he was holding up fine until Joe went against it.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Old Style » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:46 pm

d_money wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.

35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.

Maybe I'm stoned beyond belief but does Morrow really have 22 saves as a Cub? I can't really remember him throwing 22 pitches in a Cubs uniform.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:58 pm

Old Style wrote:
d_money wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.

35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.

Maybe I'm stoned beyond belief but does Morrow really have 22 saves as a Cub? I can't really remember him throwing 22 pitches in a Cubs uniform.


He did. He did. It seems like so long ago now, but that dude for the short time he was a Cub was pretty damn dominant.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:59 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Old Style wrote:
d_money wrote:35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.

Maybe I'm stoned beyond belief but does Morrow really have 22 saves as a Cub? I can't really remember him throwing 22 pitches in a Cubs uniform.


He did. He did. It seems like so long ago now, but that dude for the short time he was a Cub was pretty damn dominant.

He had the 5th lowest ERA of RPs who pitched at least 30 innings last year (he pitched like 30.2).

Also looking in to this, I forgot Carl was ridiculous through late July-August or so last year before he got hurt.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby 17 Seconds » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:40 pm

d_money wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
d_money wrote:And signing oft injured Morrow for 2/$21M. Complete and total waste for a team ownership bitching about money.

The price reflected the risk, the rest of the FA RP market sucked or was overpriced (Davis, who will still got a pick for losing) he at least was really good for the 40 innings or whatever we had him for last year.

35 appearances and 22 saves. No sign he’s coming back this year. I guess it’s par for the course with Theos long history of botched FA signings, save for Lester. Theos not good with the checkbook.


nobody is arguing that it didn't turn out poorly
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby ConstableRabbit » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:39 am

Andy wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
Yeah, I still don’t hate that one.


Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

The minute he wasn't able to pitch the day after throwing 2 damn pitches in Miami because he had supposedly warmed up too much, I knew that one was a losing move.

Counterpoint: Chapman’s 8 out save almost lost us the WS.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby 17 Seconds » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:18 am

ConstableRabbit wrote:
Andy wrote:
snoodmonger wrote:
Weird, because I've always hated it. I get that the price wasn't a roster-buster, but it still seemed like a doomed acquisition. Even in its most successful version, he was going to be a closer you had to handle like a piece of china. No long saves. No (or infrequent, IIRC) back-to-back days of usage.

Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

The minute he wasn't able to pitch the day after throwing 2 damn pitches in Miami because he had supposedly warmed up too much, I knew that one was a losing move.

Counterpoint: Chapman’s 8 out save almost lost us the WS.


maddon's decision to use him in game 6 is what almost cost us. the 8 out save couldn't possibly have been more needed.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby Deeg » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:55 am

17 Seconds wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:
Andy wrote:Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

The minute he wasn't able to pitch the day after throwing 2 damn pitches in Miami because he had supposedly warmed up too much, I knew that one was a losing move.

Counterpoint: Chapman’s 8 out save almost lost us the WS.


maddon's decision to use him in game 6 is what almost cost us. the 8 out save couldn't possibly have been more needed.


Very, very much this. I had no issue with the Game 5 save. But if Joe hadn't needlessly used him in Game 6 he would have gone into Game 7 on two days rest and I think he'd have been fine. That and pulling Hendricks while he was cruising and unhittable in game 7 almost cost us the series.
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Re: Happ is Back

Postby ConstableRabbit » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:23 am

17 Seconds wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:
Andy wrote:Bingo. Considering we were coming off postseasons in which we A) won the title in large part because of Chapman's 8-out save in Game 5 of the Series and B) advanced to the NLCS in large part because of Wade Davis' 7-out save in Game 5 against Washington, it was straight-up stupid to then go sign a closer you knew damn well you were never going to be able to use that way even if he didn't break before then.

The minute he wasn't able to pitch the day after throwing 2 damn pitches in Miami because he had supposedly warmed up too much, I knew that one was a losing move.

Counterpoint: Chapman’s 8 out save almost lost us the WS.


maddon's decision to use him in game 6 is what almost cost us. the 8 out save couldn't possibly have been more needed.

Ha! Yes I confused the games. Game 5 was epic.
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