2020 roster

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:42 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Here's my first go of it
C- Vic
1B- Rizzo
2B- Nico
SS- Javy
3B- KB
LF- Schwarbs
CF- Heyward
RF- Nick

Bench: Margot (CF), Fraizer 2B/OF, Bote IF, Kemp IF/OF, Castro/Martin C

Pitchers (13)

Rotation:
Lester
Darvish
Hendricks
Gray
Q

Bullpen
Kimbrel
Wick
Estevez
Ryan
Wieck
Phelps
Underwood
Mills

Underwood And Mills are out of options so they get first crack at the bullpen. Then Graveman, Rea, Adbert, Mekkes, Hultzen, etc are on the shuttle.


I feel like this isn't changing things up enough. That lineup, rotation and bullpen is far too much the same for me to have any confidence in this bunch. Theo needs to get much crazier.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:57 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Here's my first go of it
C- Vic
1B- Rizzo
2B- Nico
SS- Javy
3B- KB
LF- Schwarbs
CF- Heyward
RF- Nick

Bench: Margot (CF), Fraizer 2B/OF, Bote IF, Kemp IF/OF, Castro/Martin C

Pitchers (13)

Rotation:
Lester
Darvish
Hendricks
Gray
Q

Bullpen
Kimbrel
Wick
Estevez
Ryan
Wieck
Phelps
Underwood
Mills

Underwood And Mills are out of options so they get first crack at the bullpen. Then Graveman, Rea, Adbert, Mekkes, Hultzen, etc are on the shuttle.


I feel like this isn't changing things up enough. That lineup, rotation and bullpen is far too much the same for me to have any confidence in this bunch. Theo needs to get much crazier.


Agreed, also think Margot and Frazier won't cost anywhere near cheap enough to sit on the bench even if the PAs may or may not be there
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:01 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Here's my first go of it
C- Vic
1B- Rizzo
2B- Nico
SS- Javy
3B- KB
LF- Schwarbs
CF- Heyward
RF- Nick

Bench: Margot (CF), Fraizer 2B/OF, Bote IF, Kemp IF/OF, Castro/Martin C

Pitchers (13)

Rotation:
Lester
Darvish
Hendricks
Gray
Q

Bullpen
Kimbrel
Wick
Estevez
Ryan
Wieck
Phelps
Underwood
Mills

Underwood And Mills are out of options so they get first crack at the bullpen. Then Graveman, Rea, Adbert, Mekkes, Hultzen, etc are on the shuttle.


I feel like this isn't changing things up enough. That lineup, rotation and bullpen is far too much the same for me to have any confidence in this bunch. Theo needs to get much crazier.

I just don’t see the complete blow up offseason. There’s still a solid core here that likely gets tweaked instead of overhauled. I just don’t see how they do like the 4-6 big moves to overly change things. I think something what I laid out is roughly what’s going to happen. You’re still smoothing the edges with better depth and adding a ~3+ WAR SP and the bullpen is solid enough on paper going in to a year. It obviously doesn’t feel like enough but round things out better and take your shot again, just looking at it realistically. I’d like to see more change too but don’t want to get hopes up or remotely expect it.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:08 pm

The 4 best SP, the best reliever, and 4 position players(3 of them stars) are basically chiseled in concrete, it’s gonna feel familiar unless you start making trades for the sake of trades. The reckoning starts one way or another after next year, when you have half the rotation plus Rizzo out of contract.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:41 pm

I just made this up but mostly it's the gist of what I want right now probably:

C: Zunino/Caratini - I assume the former will be non-tendered, the staff seems to like Caratini well enough to survive with that min salary, Jason Castro is another Caratini partner I like. Worst case is the catchers just catcher well, wouldn't be surprised if a Caratini/vet pairing finds some offense mad $/WAR potential

1B - Rizzo

2B - Cesar Hernandez, Bote, Hoerner - for Happ, maybe someone like Joey Wendle from the Rays instead

SS - Baez, Hoerner, Bote

3B - Bryant, Bote

RF - Betts - Contreras, Marquez, Riley Thompson, Luis Verdugo, Cubs also get Darwinzon Hernandez

CF - Heyward/Brinson - Brinson for Almora and Mills

LF - Schwarber - Vin Diesel would be all like "too soon, junior" if Theo traded him now after forcing him down our throats through what now seems like growing pains. Turns out Schwarber's a pretty competent all around player, doesn't make it look pretty, Don't need a new norm so much as a peak year, maybe two but one and trade is fine, that are super cheap

Darvish
Hendricks
Quintana - A guy I would love to package with Heyward to the Braves for Patrick Weigel or, with luck, Kyle Wright
Lester
Wacha - For the troll, Pineda for two years max I guess if they lack the confidence in the pitching department to do some trolling

Kimbrel
Chatwood
Wick
Ryan
Phelps? - Maybe someone cheaper depending on the details of his option. Collin McHugh?
Tony Cingrani - Signed mainly as a placeholder for Hernandez, who otherwise is a top 25 guy
Tyler Thornburg - These last two are more potential trolling for the pitching department, I hate the idea of spending serious money on bullpen and BOR arms this offseason

Trading Bote for a reliever seems obvious but I was losing steam by the time I got to him if not 7000+ posts ago
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:48 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:I just made this up but mostly it's the gist of what I want right now probably:

C: Zunino/Caratini - I assume the former will be non-tendered, the staff seems to like Caratini well enough to survive with that min salary, Jason Castro is another Caratini partner I like. Worst case is the catchers just catcher well, wouldn't be surprised if a Caratini/vet pairing finds some offense mad $/WAR potential

1B - Rizzo

2B - Cesar Hernandez, Bote, Hoerner - for Happ, maybe someone like Joey Wendle from the Rays instead

SS - Baez, Hoerner, Bote

3B - Bryant, Bote

RF - Betts - Contreras, Marquez, Riley Thompson, Luis Verdugo, Cubs also get Darwinzon Hernandez

CF - Heyward/Brinson - Brinson for Almora and Mills

LF - Schwarber - Vin Diesel would be all like "too soon, junior" if Theo traded him now after forcing him down our throats through what now seems like growing pains. Turns out Schwarber's a pretty competent all around player, doesn't make it look pretty, Don't need a new norm so much as a peak year, maybe two but one and trade is fine, that are super cheap

Darvish
Hendricks
Quintana - A guy I would love to package with Heyward to the Braves for Patrick Weigel or, with luck, Kyle Wright
Lester
Wacha - For the troll, Pineda for two years max I guess if they lack the confidence in the pitching department to do some trolling

Kimbrel
Chatwood
Wick
Ryan
Phelps? - Maybe someone cheaper depending on the details of his option. Collin McHugh?
Tony Cingrani - Signed mainly as a placeholder for Hernandez, who otherwise is a top 25 guy
Tyler Thornburg - These last two are more potential trolling for the pitching department, I hate the idea of spending serious money on bullpen and BOR arms this offseason

Trading Bote for a reliever seems obvious but I was losing steam by the time I got to him if not 7000+ posts ago

Sign me up, outside of Brinson move. He horsefeathering sucks, like one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. I thought of Hernandez as a target as well, but went with Fraizer in my mock. I’m fine keeping Bote because he’s solid, but more as the 11-12th man on the 25 man for position players.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:03 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Sign me up, outside of Brinson move. He horsefeathering sucks, like one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. I thought of Hernandez as a target as well, but went with Fraizer in my mock. I’m fine keeping Bote because he’s solid, but more as the 11-12th man on the 25 man for position players.


Meh, we've awarded and will award free jobs to way less productive prospects than Brinson for making contact and existing as Cubs. Meanwhile the lineup is full of guys who K'd in the minors but also mashed, most like Brinson big guys for the position. For the cost - just swapping out a Almora and a not dead low ceiling cheap ML arm for a guy who min salary CF who actually hit in the minors to backup the OF - it's worth it on that kind of roster. The overarching point on Brinson is you're probably not getting a clearcut starting CF like Margot for the kind of prices the Cubs can pay for a non-stud

OTOH do agree on Bote on that imagined roster anyway, crazy depth and probably still tradeable moving forward
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:04 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Sign me up, outside of Brinson move. He horsefeathering sucks, like one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. I thought of Hernandez as a target as well, but went with Fraizer in my mock. I’m fine keeping Bote because he’s solid, but more as the 11-12th man on the 25 man for position players.


Meh, we've awarded and will award free jobs to way less productive prospects than Brinson for making contact and existing as Cubs. For the cost it's just swapping out a Almora and a not dead low ceiling cheap ML arm for a guy who min salary CF who actually hit in the minors to backup the OF. The overarching point on Brinson is you're probably not getting a clearcut starting CF like Margot for the kind of prices the Cubs can pay for a non-stud


Translation:

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:05 am

Boooooooooooooo, if I thought anyone besides Contreras traded in that offseason could land a really good established CF or even a Margot then it'd be there so I went for pedigree and upside on a post-hype guy with no ML success but tons of very recent MiL success
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:14 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Sign me up, outside of Brinson move. He horsefeathering sucks, like one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. I thought of Hernandez as a target as well, but went with Fraizer in my mock. I’m fine keeping Bote because he’s solid, but more as the 11-12th man on the 25 man for position players.


Meh, we've awarded and will award free jobs to way less productive prospects than Brinson for making contact and existing as Cubs. Meanwhile the lineup is full of guys who K'd in the minors but also mashed, most like Brinson big guys for the position. For the cost - just swapping out a Almora and a not dead low ceiling cheap ML arm for a guy who min salary CF who actually hit in the minors to backup the OF - it's worth it on that kind of roster. The overarching point on Brinson is you're probably not getting a clearcut starting CF like Margot for the kind of prices the Cubs can pay for a non-stud

Dude Lewis Brinson is horsefeathering horrible. Also how is the cost on Margot prohibitive? He’s a short side of the platoon bat and good defender, Happ and a Short or Ademan is more than enough for that.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:28 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Dude Lewis Brinson is horsefeathering horrible. Also how is the cost on Margot prohibitive? He’s a short side of the platoon bat and good defender, Happ and a Short or Ademan is more than enough for that.


Meh, still like Brinson as the team's - espscially that roster's - fourth OF with the Cubs' coaching. My guess is the Padres aren't going to view their super cheap starting CF, now becoming known as one of the best defensive CFs and overall OFs in the league for super cheap, as Cubs fan would like them to. It's not like there are a ton of guys in the league who have Margot's current skillset, contract situation, and pedigree, sowhat's their incentive to take such a light haul? Margot on the trade market is someone who would attract pretty much every team in baseball

----

Some other weird, non-Brinson/Margot CF trade options:

Michael Gettys - Padres' AAA CF, longtime prospect had a .261 IsoSLG and hit 31 HRs playing mostly CF but all 3 OF spots
Bradley Zimmer - Freaky size/speed with good power, never healthy in the MLs maybe the Indians run out of patience
Mallex Smith
Delino Deshields Jr - Last two might be non-tender candidates?
Franklin Barretto/Jorge Mateo - A couple former or current top prospects lost in the shuffle? I feel like the A's have a bat to trade for, I like Treinen for the pen if they can get him cheap
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:05 am

For TT's:

- Contreras for a non-rental impact SP is super tempting. Contreras for Syndergaard is up there with Contreras for Betts with me, inclination has been Betts because I hatw the OF more. Since the SP's harder to find and all this hype is on improving the pitching department, plus Syndergaard and the Mets are so tense that he might be traded this offseason...in which case Theo should be on that...Not sure they can get Snell or Marquez for him, maybe Jon Gray?

- Big fan of Hedges as a post hype guy

----

I'd also prefer not much beyond the farm's surface to make trades. Still think the Outside World doesn't value the hitters like the Cubs do, sending Amaya to the AFL is interesting
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:35 am

Bote McBoteface wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:I think Theo goes scorched earth on this roster. I think the only untouchables are Rizzo, Javy and Hendricks. Everyone else is various levels of available. Heck Rizzo might even be available but I think they want his clubhouse presence and the Cubs probably value a 30 year old 1B with 2 years left on his deal more than other teams would. I don't think they will dump guys just to upend the roster but I think they will set out to fix some of the lingering issues this team has had the last couple of seasons and will be more willing than ever to trade a Bryant/Contreras/Schwarber. I'd put money on at least 1 of those 3 being gone in the offseason.

You guys do roster construction stuff much better than me, I'm just throwing guesses out there. But I think Theo knows that the roster needs more than just a couple of small tweaks.


I think youre right that at least one of Rizzo/Bryant/schwarber/Contreras will be out, but id say in order of most to least likely itd be Schwarber/Rizzo/Bryant/Contreras. Schwarber is pretty obvious, but i put Rizzo as 2nd most likely simply because its easier to replace a 1st baseman, and his contract seems to give him some excess value that will start to deteriorate rapidly as he gets closer to FA. If youre gonna trade Rizzo rather than watch him leave via FA, the time to do so is this offseason. We have inhouse options to replace him, too. But id rather go outside to replace him if he did get traded.



I think you have it backwards
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby sweetpeteman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:42 am

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:I think Theo goes scorched earth on this roster. I think the only untouchables are Rizzo, Javy and Hendricks. Everyone else is various levels of available. Heck Rizzo might even be available but I think they want his clubhouse presence and the Cubs probably value a 30 year old 1B with 2 years left on his deal more than other teams would. I don't think they will dump guys just to upend the roster but I think they will set out to fix some of the lingering issues this team has had the last couple of seasons and will be more willing than ever to trade a Bryant/Contreras/Schwarber. I'd put money on at least 1 of those 3 being gone in the offseason.

You guys do roster construction stuff much better than me, I'm just throwing guesses out there. But I think Theo knows that the roster needs more than just a couple of small tweaks.


I think youre right that at least one of Rizzo/Bryant/schwarber/Contreras will be out, but id say in order of most to least likely itd be Schwarber/Rizzo/Bryant/Contreras. Schwarber is pretty obvious, but i put Rizzo as 2nd most likely simply because its easier to replace a 1st baseman, and his contract seems to give him some excess value that will start to deteriorate rapidly as he gets closer to FA. If youre gonna trade Rizzo rather than watch him leave via FA, the time to do so is this offseason. We have inhouse options to replace him, too. But id rather go outside to replace him if he did get traded.



I think you have it backwards



It's easily Contreras/Schwarber......................Rizzo/Bryant


The reasons:

Contreras is probably the most likely to be moved. He's got the combination of high value but expendable. He's in a high value position and is likely to be able to bring back the value in a trade that makes it worth trading him while the Cubs also have an in house option to replace him. Caratini doesn't seem like he'd be that much of a step down with the bat, while also providing better game calling/framing. Contreras has the arm, but overall I think Caratini is better behind the plate.

Schwarber is also in a position where he could be replaced with a FA, like Nick, Puig, or a stop-gap like Corey Dickerson.

Rizzo and Bryant are really interchangeable. I don't see either one being moved. Rizzo is still on a very team-friendly deal, and frankly isn't going to bring that much back that would be worth trading him for. While Goldschmidt brought back a really good haul for the DBacks, I don't see Rizzo getting that much.
Bryant isn't getting moved because there is no way in hell they are trading him for anything but an absolute block buster of an offer that isn't going to be there.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Named After Maddux » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:59 am

sweetpeteman wrote:

Contreras is probably the most likely to be moved. He's got the combination of high value but expendable. He's in a high value position and is likely to be able to bring back the value in a trade that makes it worth trading him while the Cubs also have an in house option to replace him. Caratini doesn't seem like he'd be that much of a step down with the bat, while also providing better game calling/framing. Contreras has the arm, but overall I think Caratini is better behind the plate.


I completely agree and I’d be very interested in signing Grandal for a Grandal/Caratini C tandem.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:14 am

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The 4 best SP, the best reliever, and 4 position players(3 of them stars) are basically chiseled in concrete, it’s gonna feel familiar unless you start making trades for the sake of trades. The reckoning starts one way or another after next year, when you have half the rotation plus Rizzo out of contract.


Crap. Then we are screwed. If the core of this team is basically the same next year, I expect to see the exact same type of performance next season. We might as well just start retooling rather than letting everybody play out their contracts.

I'd rather trade KB for Betts, trade for Whit Merrifield and sign Rendon.

Granted, none of this is probably possible, but that's the kind of shakeup I'd like to see. I love KB, but he's one more ailment away next season from officially breaking down. He has gone months each of the last two seasons with an injury that has zapped him.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:24 am

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The 4 best SP, the best reliever, and 4 position players(3 of them stars) are basically chiseled in concrete, it’s gonna feel familiar unless you start making trades for the sake of trades. The reckoning starts one way or another after next year, when you have half the rotation plus Rizzo out of contract.


Crap. Then we are screwed. If the core of this team is basically the same next year, I expect to see the exact same type of performance next season. We might as well just start retooling rather than letting everybody play out their contracts.

I'd rather trade KB for Betts, trade for Whit Merrifield and sign Rendon.

Granted, none of this is probably possible, but that's the kind of shakeup I'd like to see. I love KB, but he's one more ailment away next season from officially breaking down. He has gone months each of the last two seasons with an injury that has zapped him.

No we are not “screwed.” That sequence of moves is so unlikely, just not realistic. The problem isn’t the core, the core is still pretty damn good. The problem is the margins and complimentary pieces to supplement what the core lacks, which can be addressed in the offseason. You just don’t blow it up, you make a real effort with the likely $20-30 mil in available money and a lesser trade piece (Willy/Schwarbs) to go figure it out.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:27 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:The 4 best SP, the best reliever, and 4 position players(3 of them stars) are basically chiseled in concrete, it’s gonna feel familiar unless you start making trades for the sake of trades. The reckoning starts one way or another after next year, when you have half the rotation plus Rizzo out of contract.


Crap. Then we are screwed. If the core of this team is basically the same next year, I expect to see the exact same type of performance next season. We might as well just start retooling rather than letting everybody play out their contracts.

I'd rather trade KB for Betts, trade for Whit Merrifield and sign Rendon.

Granted, none of this is probably possible, but that's the kind of shakeup I'd like to see. I love KB, but he's one more ailment away next season from officially breaking down. He has gone months each of the last two seasons with an injury that has zapped him.

No we are not “screwed.” That sequence of moves is so unlikely, just not realistic. The problem isn’t the core, the core is still pretty damn good. The problem is the margins and complimentary pieces to supplement what the core lacks, which can be addressed in the offseason. You just don’t blow it up, you make a real effort with the likely $20-30 mil in available money and a lesser trade piece (Willy/Schwarbs) to go figure it out.


I don't know, man. I just think we are going to be right back here next year trying to come up with why this core again didn't get it done.

KB for Betts and Rendon are very unlikely, but at least shoot for somebody that resembles 2016 Dex.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:32 am

What good does Bryant for Betts even do besides subtract an MVP candidate to replace him with one hitting FA after the season? How is Bryant's 26-27 any different from Rendon's 25-26 outside of being way better?
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:39 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:What good does Bryant for Betts even do besides subtract an MVP candidate to replace him with one hitting FA after the season? How is Bryant's 26-27 any different from Rendon's 25-26 outside of being way better?


Well, it's more replacing Bryant with Rendon but then also getting another star for KB. So sort of two stars for one.

But, yeah, none of this is actually happening. I've just grown fatigued watching this offense and hope for something a tad different.

ETA: I also thought Betts and KB were both under contract for two more seasons.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:52 am

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:What good does Bryant for Betts even do besides subtract an MVP candidate to replace him with one hitting FA after the season? How is Bryant's 26-27 any different from Rendon's 25-26 outside of being way better?


Well, it's more replacing Bryant with Rendon but then also getting another star for KB. So sort of two stars for one.

But, yeah, none of this is actually happening. I've just grown fatigued watching this offense and hope for something a tad different.


Why not just keep Bryant, who is already on the Cubs and has been better than Rendon through the same age anyway, and just trade for another star? It's one thing to blow up the core and another to trade the best player, add $50 million to the payroll with two players plus a draft pick or however that works, and then still trade for another AS player

Rendon's a good player but I've never understood his popularity as a 30 YO FA v the disdain for Bryant's future FA at 30. Bryant's awesome...Fowler was 28 in 2016, right? Bryant's 28 next year!
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:56 am

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Crap. Then we are screwed. If the core of this team is basically the same next year, I expect to see the exact same type of performance next season. We might as well just start retooling rather than letting everybody play out their contracts.

I'd rather trade KB for Betts, trade for Whit Merrifield and sign Rendon.

Granted, none of this is probably possible, but that's the kind of shakeup I'd like to see. I love KB, but he's one more ailment away next season from officially breaking down. He has gone months each of the last two seasons with an injury that has zapped him.

No we are not “screwed.” That sequence of moves is so unlikely, just not realistic. The problem isn’t the core, the core is still pretty damn good. The problem is the margins and complimentary pieces to supplement what the core lacks, which can be addressed in the offseason. You just don’t blow it up, you make a real effort with the likely $20-30 mil in available money and a lesser trade piece (Willy/Schwarbs) to go figure it out.


I don't know, man. I just think we are going to be right back here next year trying to come up with why this core again didn't get it done.

KB for Betts and Rendon are very unlikely, but at least shoot for somebody that resembles 2016 Dex.

For as fun as that would be, they just won't add Betts (with KB or Rendon on the roster) he'd soak up all the available money. Which yeah that sucks but we are dealing in reality, let's wait a year and hope we can grab him in FA. The trade KB for stuff and sign Rendon sequence makes sense on paper and in a video game but I think it's harder to pull off in reality.

That leaves us with the fact we have 13-15 WAR banked between KB, Javy and Rizzo going in to next year. They are not the problem. The problems are the pieces around them and we need to make the roster deeper and more diverse to supplement their deficiencies. This was similar to the pre-2016 offseason, we saw our butts get shoved in the CS vs the Mets pitching because we had too much swing and miss and saw we needed a more well rounded roster and contact so we added Zobrist and Heyward. It's not all that dissimilar to this offseason coming up, you know what your core is with those three so go address it with the margin and supplemental moves (which involves trading at least one of Willy or Schwarbs). Build out a deeper roster on offense with some more contact and complimentary pieces and things should shake out better. The pitching also has a decent enough foundation with the guys returning that it's more back filling than doing a big overhaul. The offense should be the big focus.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:02 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:No we are not “screwed.” That sequence of moves is so unlikely, just not realistic. The problem isn’t the core, the core is still pretty damn good. The problem is the margins and complimentary pieces to supplement what the core lacks, which can be addressed in the offseason. You just don’t blow it up, you make a real effort with the likely $20-30 mil in available money and a lesser trade piece (Willy/Schwarbs) to go figure it out.


I don't know, man. I just think we are going to be right back here next year trying to come up with why this core again didn't get it done.

KB for Betts and Rendon are very unlikely, but at least shoot for somebody that resembles 2016 Dex.

For as fun as that would be, they just won't add Betts (with KB or Rendon on the roster) he'd soak up all the available money. Which yeah that sucks but we are dealing in reality, let's wait a year and hope we can grab him in FA. The trade KB for stuff and sign Rendon sequence makes sense on paper and in a video game but I think it's harder to pull off in reality.

That leaves us with the fact we have 13-15 WAR banked between KB, Javy and Rizzo going in to next year. They are not the problem. The problems are the pieces around them and we need to make the roster deeper and more diverse to supplement their deficiencies. This was similar to the pre-2016 offseason, we saw our butts get shoved in the CS vs the Mets pitching because we had too much swing and miss and saw we needed a more well rounded roster and contact so we added Zobrist and Heyward. It's not all that dissimilar to this offseason coming up, you know what your core is with those three so go address it with the margin and supplemental moves (which involves trading at least one of Willy or Schwarbs). Build out a deeper roster on offense with some more contact and complimentary pieces and things should shake out better. The pitching also has a decent enough foundation with the guys returning that it's more back filling than doing a big overhaul. The offense should be the big focus.


Yeah, that would be fine. Baez, Rizzo and Bryant are cool in the middle. I just really want -- about to sound meatbally here -- a spark at the top. Maybe even two. A couple guys who make contact, get on base and have speed. Guys who can create havoc while getting knocked in by those three. But that's way easier said then done. I suppose everybody wants those guys.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2020 roster

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:06 am

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
I don't know, man. I just think we are going to be right back here next year trying to come up with why this core again didn't get it done.

KB for Betts and Rendon are very unlikely, but at least shoot for somebody that resembles 2016 Dex.

For as fun as that would be, they just won't add Betts (with KB or Rendon on the roster) he'd soak up all the available money. Which yeah that sucks but we are dealing in reality, let's wait a year and hope we can grab him in FA. The trade KB for stuff and sign Rendon sequence makes sense on paper and in a video game but I think it's harder to pull off in reality.

That leaves us with the fact we have 13-15 WAR banked between KB, Javy and Rizzo going in to next year. They are not the problem. The problems are the pieces around them and we need to make the roster deeper and more diverse to supplement their deficiencies. This was similar to the pre-2016 offseason, we saw our butts get shoved in the CS vs the Mets pitching because we had too much swing and miss and saw we needed a more well rounded roster and contact so we added Zobrist and Heyward. It's not all that dissimilar to this offseason coming up, you know what your core is with those three so go address it with the margin and supplemental moves (which involves trading at least one of Willy or Schwarbs). Build out a deeper roster on offense with some more contact and complimentary pieces and things should shake out better. The pitching also has a decent enough foundation with the guys returning that it's more back filling than doing a big overhaul. The offense should be the big focus.


Yeah, that would be fine. Baez, Rizzo and Bryant are cool in the middle. I just really want -- about to sound meatbally here -- a spark at the top. Maybe even two. A couple guys who make contact, get on base and have speed. Guys who can create havoc while getting knocked in by those three. But that's way easier said then done. I suppose everybody wants those guys.

If they can't find that guy, which idk if he's out there (Brett Gardner, Margot vs LHP, Nico if he really is a thing, idk) just throw Rizzo at the top and make him the leadoff. That solves a lot of problems with the vaunted lead off spot. Then find more contacty guys down stream in the lineup.
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Re: 2020 roster

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:26 am

With the badass that is Ben Zobrist on the way out and the best guy lined up to replace him being Nico Hoerner, I'm less worried about contact and more about approach and OBP. Bryant, Rizzo, and Schwarber know how to eat pitches and work a PA. Contreras can during whatever half of the season he is hitting. Baez does his own thing and it works plus he plays SS so whatever. Castellanos, who I am pretty much fully against resigning, loves to swing. Heyward makes plenty of contact but doesn't hit the ball hard enough...Heck, Fowler wasn't some great contact making leadoff hitter in 2016
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