2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby ConstableRabbit » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:56 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:https://twitter.com/tonyandracki23/status/1218557962194751488?s=21

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If they’re going to extend Baez they’d almost certainly be over the CBT next year, which could be some justification for getting under this year given the penalties.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:00 pm

ConstableRabbit wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:https://twitter.com/tonyandracki23/status/1218557962194751488?s=21

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If they’re going to extend Baez they’d almost certainly be over the CBT next year, which could be some justification for getting under this year given the penalties.

They shouldn’t extend him then so they have more freedom to add talent. IMO.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Bertz » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:16 pm



I expected him to wind up being the LH part of our 2B situation. Hopefully this means we're aiming higher like Holt and not just letting it ride with Asuaje.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Post Count Padder » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:22 pm

I had assumed we'd end up with him so that's a relief. Really hoping we sign Holt.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:21 pm

Who is the RH part of 2B and, if Hoerner or even Bote, why do they need a platoon partner? Bote was worse against LHP last year, Hoerner in a platoon might hurt more than help him
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:26 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:Who is the RH part of 2B and, if Hoerner or even Bote, why do they need a platoon partner? Bote was worse against LHP last year, Hoerner in a platoon might hurt more than help him

Both them and maybe some Happ. Bote was way better vs LHP in 2018 and horsefeathers vs RHP. So jury is still out there, imo. Bote also may need to play some 3B with KB in the OF too. We don’t even know if Nico is good and he also may be in the CF mix (or may want him starting in AAA). Holt just adds some quality depth and it makes some sense for it to be a LHH capable of playing 2B (plus other spots). Just helps make the roster more versatile really and isn’t so much needing a platoon partner for guys at 2B, IMO.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:03 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Both them and maybe some Happ. Bote was way better vs LHP in 2018 and horsefeathers vs RHP. So jury is still out there, imo. Bote also may need to play some 3B with KB in the OF too. We don’t even know if Nico is good and he also may be in the CF mix (or may want him starting in AAA). Holt just adds some quality depth and it makes some sense for it to be a LHH capable of playing 2B (plus other spots). Just helps make the roster more versatile really and isn’t so much needing a platoon partner for guys at 2B, IMO.


I just don't see the fit, or at least much room for him to make an impact. He's basically been the same player as Bote for the past half decade now but with lower lows and worse defense. Bote himself has almost the exact same lines against RH and LH pitchers since coming up and is at the ages Holt had his best seasons, not a whole lot of incentive to look for a non-impact guy to take PAs away. Happ's got a 121 wRC+ / .357 wOBA against RHPs so he's not looking for a LHH partner and is probably the starting CF anyway where Holt couldn't help. Not going to find out if Hoerner's good by setting him up for only favorable matchups, that's the same trap as Almora all over again, but if he isn't they start Bote instead
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:09 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Both them and maybe some Happ. Bote was way better vs LHP in 2018 and horsefeathers vs RHP. So jury is still out there, imo. Bote also may need to play some 3B with KB in the OF too. We don’t even know if Nico is good and he also may be in the CF mix (or may want him starting in AAA). Holt just adds some quality depth and it makes some sense for it to be a LHH capable of playing 2B (plus other spots). Just helps make the roster more versatile really and isn’t so much needing a platoon partner for guys at 2B, IMO.


I just don't see the fit. He's basically been the same player as Bote for the past half decade now but with lower lows and worse defense. Bote himself has almost the exact same lines against RH and LH pitchers since coming up and is at the ages Holt had his best seasons, not a whole lot of incentive to look for a non-impact guy to take PAs away. Happ's got a 121 wRC+ / .357 wOBA against RHPs so he's not looking for a LHH partner and is probably the starting CF anyway where Holt couldn't help. Not going to find out if Hoerner's good by setting him up for only favorable matchups, that's the same trap as Almora all over again, but if he isn't they start Bote instead

He’s better than Descalso and does the contact thing, with a 26-man roster I see how he can fit and be used. I’d rather have him than Descalso, Asuaje, Giambrone, Hernan Perez, Short, etc break camp on the roster. It’s just like years past with the “how are all these guys going to play?” questions were asked when we had real depth, it always works itself out and is good to have over this sham depth we have right now.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:45 am

Cubswin11 wrote:He’s better than Descalso and does the contact thing, with a 26-man roster I see how he can fit and be used. I’d rather have him than Descalso, Asuaje, Giambrone, Hernan Perez, Short, etc break camp on the roster. It’s just like years past with the “how are all these guys going to play?” questions were asked when we had real depth, it always works itself out and is good to have over this sham depth we have right now.


If this is how you feel about players like Bote, not really sure why, then Brock Holt of all players is not going to fix what ails you. I could see a situation where he's the best possible 26th man, but also think he could be a FA into ST when it's much easier to make that call. For now I think the FO should focus on moves that might actually move the needle for the Cubs
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:51 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He’s better than Descalso and does the contact thing, with a 26-man roster I see how he can fit and be used. I’d rather have him than Descalso, Asuaje, Giambrone, Hernan Perez, Short, etc break camp on the roster. It’s just like years past with the “how are all these guys going to play?” questions were asked when we had real depth, it always works itself out and is good to have over this sham depth we have right now.


If this is how you feel about players like Bote, not really sure why, then Brock Holt of all players is not going to fix what ails you. I could see a situation where he's the best possible 26th man, but also think he could be a FA into ST when it's much easier to make that call. For now I think the FO should focus on moves that might actually move the needle for the Cubs

I do not feel that way about Bote or Happ or Nico. I feel the depth is a sham from Descalso, Almora, Asuaje, Hernan, etc down and it’s easily upgradable. Holt, Souza, Pillar, Dyson, etc. the former should all be like 17th—25th guys on a 13 man position player depth chart. Not multiple ones being in line to break camp.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:32 am

Cubswin11 wrote:I do not feel that way about Bote or Happ or Nico. I feel the depth is a sham from Descalso, Almora, Asuaje, Hernan, etc down and it’s easily upgradable. Holt, Souza, Pillar, Dyson, etc. the former should all be like 17th—25th guys on a 13 man position player depth chart. Not multiple ones being in line to break camp.


As it is, two of those 4 current Cubs are unlikely to be on the OD 26, the other 2 are like the 5th OFer/backup CFer and a pinch hitter/7th infielder plus have some of the lowest salaries on the roster. Those aren't the guys most impacted by a Holt or Pillar signing, it's the Botes, Happs, and Hoerners who will lose PAs. Personally I don't see a ton of difference in 2020 upside between the first group of players and the available FAs with that in mind or why those very qualified FAs would sign with a team that wants them to fight for the 26th man spot. Throw in that they can proooobably worry about the perfect back of the roster in ST when many of those guys will still be available

I'm not outright against signing any of those guys eventually, but also don't care to eliminate more impactful possibilities because the public finally turned on Slappy
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Bear Cub » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:47 am

Forget Holt, re-sign Zobrist.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby weis21 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:33 pm

Bear Cub wrote:Forget Holt, re-sign Zobrist.

I’m not opposed to this at all. But, I haven’t even heard a whisper about him and so I kind of just imagine he’s splitting his time with his kids and then flying down to Costa Rica to hang with Toby or something.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Bertz » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:19 pm

There are two components to a good bench. The first is depth, basically the ability to run 8 good players out there every day even with injuries. The second is having complimentary skillsets, putting your guys in the best position to succeed.

In terms of depth, the situation actually isn't that bad. And if Nico is good right away, it's pretty good. That'd make 11 quality guys for 8 spots, and with the positional flexibility present every position has a strong backup. It's not the stupid depth from 2016, but it's about as good as any non-Dodgers team. Though clearly Nico being good right away isn't a given.

The complimentary skills aspect is where the bench is severely lacking. The entire starting outfield has severe L/R splits, yet the roster lacks a RH compliment beyond Almora. Speaking of Almora, he's the only real CF on the roster. On the infield, the main guys are all right handed aside from Rizzo, but the only LH complimentary bat is Descalso. There's also the whole high fastball thing which is pretty systemic throughout the roster, as well as basically no speed beyond Nico and Javy. The team is very vulnerable to certain matchups.

In an ideal world we'd add something like Brock Holt, Kevin Pillar, and Billy Hamilton to patch all those holes. From there send Almora to Iowa until August a la Happ and Descalso would get until Nico'sready to prove he shouldn't be DFAd. Instead we're going to have to hope Descalso's issue was just the ankle and that Almora was overexposed and will do better as a matchup guy. Neither is unreasonable, but when combined with Nico being a rookie and the short track record of the new and improved Happ there is a lot more downside risk than any of us would probably like to see.

Something I'd like to see to help combat this is a lot more Willson and KB (if applicable) in the outfield. This would really help Ross have as many positive matchups as possible at his disposal. Yes, Willson essentially lost a game in Pittsburgh last year with his defense, but that was on Joe for putting him out there with almost no prep. If he played once a week or so out there, he'd be an adequate defender and we could get both him and Caratini into the lineup more. KB in CF further solves a lot of the imbalance issues on the roster, and he has the speed to handle it. I really really want to see this if he doesn't get moved. Overall, I'd like to see something like this:

Willson - 100 starts at C, 30 in OF
Caratini - 60 at C, 10 at 1B
Rizzo - 150 at 1B
Nico - 50 in MiLB, 60 at 2B, 15 in CF, 15 at SS
Baez - 145 at SS
Bote - 60 at 3B, 60 at 2B
KB - 80 at 3B, 50 in CF, 20 in OF
Happ - 80 in CF, 15 at 2B, 15 at 3B, 20 in OF
Schwarber/Heyward - 130 in LF/RF respectively

Nico and Happ probably don't have to move around quite this much, but it's in service of keeping them both legitimately usable as super utility types.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:02 pm

I wholly disagree that the current bench doesn't compliment the starters. Almora's a high contact hitter behind Happ in CF and a RHH backing up the other two also Schwarber K's. No one else plays CF on the roster except Bryant a few times 5 years ago. If Hoerner's legit he's the starting 2B and the bench really gets a find in Bote. If not, Bote and Descalso form a 2B platoon in which Bote gets most of the PAs. Caratini's an outstanding backup C who may even have starter potential somewhere, has the bat to give Rizzo the day off or catch and let Contreras give Rizzo a day off. Also also Contreras to the OF so often isn't part of any solution, he's been there 14 times combined since 2016 and probably means things got worse somehow

If anything what this team needs needs is a starting OF with at least some CF experience or enough bat potential to not care if he/them/they can only fake it...Preferably RH or SH...minimum starting caliber RF with some CF experience...Gets on base, has some power, gives good PA, maybe has a ton of contender experience...Wonder if there's a guy....If there's a FA more on the must sign ASAP end of the spectrum, it would be this guy. That player would free Happ up to back everyone up and the bench on a daily basis has more ability to keep Contreras and Bryant where they need to be - 3B and C - while giving less established plays with versatility opportunity for reps that maybe get them promoted
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:13 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:I wholly disagree that the current bench doesn't compliment the starters. Almora's a high contact hitter behind Happ in CF and a RHH backing up the other two also Schwarber K's.No one else plays CF on the roster except Bryant a few times 5 years ago. If Hoerner's legit he's the starting 2B and the bench really gets a find in Bote. If not, Bote and Descalso form a 2B platoon in which Bote gets most of the PAs. Caratini's an outstanding backup C who may even have starter potential somewhere, has the bat to give Rizzo the day off or catch and let Contreras give Rizzo a day off. Also also Contreras to the OF so often isn't part of any solution, he's been there 14 times combined since 2016 and probably means things got worse somehow

If anything what this team needs needs is a starting OF with at least some CF experience or enough bat potential to not care if he/them/they can only fake it...Preferably RH or SH...minimum starting caliber RF with some CF experience...Gets on base, has some power, gives good PA, maybe has a ton of contender experience...Wonder if there's a guy....If there's a FA more on the must sign ASAP end of the spectrum, it would be this guy

Can we get a dislike button?

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:16 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:.


Hot take: picking *this* offseason and not the several before it to headhunt Almora, no longer the starting CF or even a starting OF, is forced and I have a hard time taking it seriously. It's not his fault, he's not the problem
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:.


Hot take: picking *this* offseason and not the several before it to headhunt Almora, no longer the starting CF or even a starting OF, is forced and I have a hard time taking it seriously. It's not his fault, he's not the problem and *never has been*

He absolutely is part of the problem and I’ve been saying he is a horsefeathers player for well over a year now and have wanted him gone going back to the last two offseasons. Bertz is 100% right in his statements above. The depth is kinda okay, especially if Nico is a thing. But still could use an add or two. How they all work together and compliment each other is lacking significantly and is a clear weakness that needs fixing.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Derwood » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:33 pm

Saying Amora and Descalso are the answer to anything besides "who are the first two players that should be replaced" is pure madness
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:53 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:He absolutely is part of the problem and I’ve been saying he is a horsefeathers player for over a year now and have wanted him gone going back to last two offseasons. Bertz is 100% right in his statements above. The depth is kinda okay, especially if Nico is a thing. How they all work together and compliment each other is lacking significantly and is a clear weakness that needs fixing.


Few things:

- If the team's backup CF and likely 5th maybe 4th OF and like 7th infielder/pinch hitter is such a glaring issue, then that team as a whole doesn't have a whole lot of problems

- He's 100% right in the sense that they don't fit into some arbitrary ideal, hence their smaller salaries, but literally their individual general skillsets tend to compliment the players around them or at least the ones they'll work with most. No one's really telling me how they don't, just that they don't and we should move Contreras to the OF more often like what

- Signing an actual starting OF - preferably a RF or CF or one that can fake both I can name a guy - does way more to solve the big Almora and Desclaso problem than Brock Holt

- This master stroke of getting any of these former starters to compete for a bench or platoon or even just straight up the 26th man spot requires them to consent and sign a contract. These guys don't have a ton of reason to not shoot for better opportunities, especially someone like Pillar with so many teams looking for CF help. Even someone Maybin, who isn't really a CF anymore anyway, has moved around so much and done well like that has no real incentive to take some camp opportunity before ST
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:02 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He absolutely is part of the problem and I’ve been saying he is a horsefeathers player for over a year now and have wanted him gone going back to last two offseasons. Bertz is 100% right in his statements above. The depth is kinda okay, especially if Nico is a thing. How they all work together and compliment each other is lacking significantly and is a clear weakness that needs fixing.


- He's 100% right in the sense that they don't fit into some arbitrary ideal, hence their smaller salaries, but literally their individual general skillsets tend to compliment the players around them or at least the ones they'll work with most. No one's really telling me how they don't

But they don’t have complimentary skill sets because they have no skills. That’s what we’re telling you. Almora doesn’t compliment anyone well because he sucks at baseball, Descalso doesn’t compliment anyone well because he sucks at baseball. It’s that simple, they bring nothing to the table.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:12 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:They don’t have complimentary skill sets because they have no skills and suck. That’s what we’re telling you. Almora doesn’t compliment anyone well because he sucks at baseball, Descalso doesn’t compliment anyone well because he sucks at baseball. It’s that simple, they bring nothing to the table.


I think there's some confusion. I understand what you're trying to tell me. It's any explanation for why these are facts and not just hyperbolic statements being repeated by the same guys who valued Kris Bryant at Zac Gallen, any one or maybe two of the D'Backs' top 10 prospects, and a little something else last week. I mean the solutions we're talking are Brock Holt, Kevin Pillar, or Billy Hamilton...these don't sound like solutions so much as new future problems with less or at best similar upside

This offseason one of your pitches for a player (thinki t was Brandon Marsh) was that he makes contact and occupies CF, which in that post had it's own value. That's Almora, except he does it in the MLs and is already in house. Literally that skillset + RHH bat compliments the LHH and/or high K bats for Schwarber, Happ, and Heyward in front of him as well as their defensive skillsets
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Derwood » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:13 pm

High contact....right into a 4-3 put out. Sweet, let's extend him
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:29 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:They don’t have complimentary skill sets because they have no skills and suck. That’s what we’re telling you. Almora doesn’t compliment anyone well because he sucks at baseball, Descalso doesn’t compliment anyone well because he sucks at baseball. It’s that simple, they bring nothing to the table.


I think there's some confusion. I understand what you're trying to tell me. It's any explanation for why these are facts and not just hyperbolic statements being repeated by the same guys who valued Kris Bryant at Zac Gallen, any one or maybe two of the D'Backs' top 10 prospects, and a little something else last week. I mean the solutions we're talking are Brock Holt, Kevin Pillar, or Billy Hamilton...these don't sound like solutions so much as new future problems with less or at best similar upside

This offseason one of your pitches for a player (thinki t was Brandon Marsh) was that he makes contact and occupies CF, which in that post had it's own value. That's Almora, except he does it in the MLs and is already in house. Literally that skillset + RHH bat compliments the LHH and/or high K bats for Schwarber, Happ, and Heyward in front of him as well as their defensive skillsets


He doesn’t make that high of contact, his 77% or so wasn’t even top 100 in MLB for guys with his PAs. His contact profile is garbage too, so I don’t care if he’s a high contact guy if it’s soft GBs every time. He also hasn’t hit LHP for 1.5 years. We’ve been over all this before. For some reason you think Almora is good (or at least useful) and myself and many others don’t and we think just adding 1-3 of Holt/Pillar/Souza types is a upgrade over him and others and are more useful. It’s not about those guys having upside even, it’s the fact they are safer bets to produce a little value and have a more established floor/certainty of production.

I didn’t necessarily value KB at that, it was my guess what a trade would maybe be when they were rumored to be in on us. It was nothing more than internet conjecture. I do like Marsh as a prospect, I think he can be better than Almora (at least a strong side platoon guy) he also takes walks. Again talking about him was more conjecture than a guy I think we should go out of our way to get. When Willy, Q, and KB were all linked to the Angels he was simply a name that stood out to me when looking at things they could possibly offer. I wouldn’t be thrilled if we traded for him and just have him the CF job right now though, he’s clearly an unknown and if he has a contact profile like Almora I wouldn’t want him around the team either unless he was an elite defender/base runner/etc.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:45 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:He doesn’t make that high of contact, his 77% or so wasn’t even top 100 in MLB for guys with his PAs. His contact profile is garbage too, so I don’t care if he’s a high contact guy if it’s soft GBs every time. He also hasn’t hit LHP for 1.5 years. We’ve been over all this before. For some reason you think Almora is good (or at least useful) and myself and many others don’t and we think just adding 1-3 of Holt/Pillar/Souza types is a upgrade over him and others and are more useful. It’s not about those guys having upside even, it’s the fact they are safer bets to produce a little value and have a more established floor/certainty of production.


- He's the team's backup CF and 4th probably 5th when OF. He doesn't need to be in the top 100 overall MLB players, what even is that? He also owns a 17% K rate at a time the league K rate is around 23-24% IIRC

- The batted profile and lack of success offensively even against LHP is why he is now a reserve OF and not a starting OF, which he's walked into the previous two seasons as. He did bad things, bad things happened back in a big demotion and smaller salary compared to his teammates

- You offer literally no explanation for why those guys are safer bets to produce a little value beyond that producing very little value is something they've been able to do for some time now, which shouldn't make you optimistic about them. I don't see how Almora's 2019 is a career killer but we should be hot and heavy for Brock Holt after his 2017 or Pillar's .3 combined WAR over his past 800+ ML PAs....Souza didn't even play last year because he was hurt, you're looking for for the Cubs to sign this off-injury former COF to be signed as the team's backup CF...So not only are they not really actually safer bets to produce a little value, but some are worse bets.

- They're all low upside plays no matter what, relative to those players Almora is a bird in the hand
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