Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:26 pm

It should say everything about Bryant that, even with 2018 dragging things down, all the projections and forecasts still put him among the tippy top and right with a guy like Arenado
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Deeg » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:19 pm

Tim wrote:
Deeg wrote:He's not even arguably the most popular player on the current roster.

Who is more popular in Colorado than Arenado? Or did you read that wrong?


Yeah, read it wrong sorry - though that referred to Bryant.

That said, there’s absolutely no way Arenado is the most popular Rockie ever. Not even close.
Last edited by Deeg on Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:21 pm

ConstableRabbit wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:Surely the Cubs aren't so far gone that we'd trade for a slightly older, very slightly better, significantly worse contract just to say we did something.

Occam’s Razor would imply that if we think the FO is sharp, if they did do that trade either:
1. They don’t think Nolan is just slightly better moving forward
2. It’s not such a big contract after the Rockies throw in cash


I really, really dislike this reasoning. It's basically just "we know they don't make mistakes because if they do it, it's not a mistake."
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Backtobanks » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:29 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The projections systems for next year have them as pretty close players, FWIW.


Bryant:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .273/.377/.508, 12%BB, 22%K, .371 wOBA, 129 wRC+, 4.8 WAR
ZIPS: .271/.369/.506 4.5 WAR

Arenado:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .296/.371/.571 10%BB, 16%k, .381 wOBA, 124 wRC+, 5 WAR
ZIPS: .298/.367/.567 4.5 WAR.


So again, why should the Cubs make this deal?

Because they may project Arenado more favorably moving forward, he’s controlled longer (I’m operating off the assumption if he’s traded he’s waiving his opt out rights as articles have mentioned), Arenado has been healthier and better more recently, projects to be able to stay at 3B longer, the Rockies are willing to pay down the deal and you’re getting Arenado at a discount, if we can throw Chatwood in him and Bryant are close to equaling out Arenado’s salary this year, maybe they like Arenado’s personality a bit to shake horsefeathers up like they’ve mentioned wanting, etc. You can still get under the LT this year acquiring Arenado and there’s still plenty of money to spend next offseason with him added.

I’d rather move Bryant for around an equally as good player, who’s controlled longer than for a prospect poo poo platter/pitchers who probably die.


We can all read the rumors and speculate, but I haven't read anything about Colorado taking on any other contracts. To tell the truth, some "rumors" have the Cubs sending along a prospect to get Arenado and cash. I haven't seen anything about them sending anywhere near the difference in salaries to keep the Cubs where they are financially or to reduce their salary obligations. I might believe it when I read something that hints of them taking on another contract to start to get us closer to (or under) the LT, but I can't see PTR going further over the LT. If Theo can move someone like Chatwood first AND Colorado throws in a ton of money, then I could see it happening.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby ConstableRabbit » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:02 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:Surely the Cubs aren't so far gone that we'd trade for a slightly older, very slightly better, significantly worse contract just to say we did something.

Occam’s Razor would imply that if we think the FO is sharp, if they did do that trade either:
1. They don’t think Nolan is just slightly better moving forward
2. It’s not such a big contract after the Rockies throw in cash


I really, really dislike this reasoning. It's basically just "we know they don't make mistakes because if they do it, it's not a mistake."

Mistakes are one thing. You’re questioning the logic/reasoning behind it which is silly.

“Why would they do something I’ve clearly laid out as so stupid!”

Well...
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:13 am

Backtobanks wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
So again, why should the Cubs make this deal?

Because they may project Arenado more favorably moving forward, he’s controlled longer (I’m operating off the assumption if he’s traded he’s waiving his opt out rights as articles have mentioned), Arenado has been healthier and better more recently, projects to be able to stay at 3B longer, the Rockies are willing to pay down the deal and you’re getting Arenado at a discount, if we can throw Chatwood in him and Bryant are close to equaling out Arenado’s salary this year, maybe they like Arenado’s personality a bit to shake horsefeathers up like they’ve mentioned wanting, etc. You can still get under the LT this year acquiring Arenado and there’s still plenty of money to spend next offseason with him added.

I’d rather move Bryant for around an equally as good player, who’s controlled longer than for a prospect poo poo platter/pitchers who probably die.


We can all read the rumors and speculate, but I haven't read anything about Colorado taking on any other contracts. To tell the truth, some "rumors" have the Cubs sending along a prospect to get Arenado and cash. I haven't seen anything about them sending anywhere near the difference in salaries to keep the Cubs where they are financially or to reduce their salary obligations. I might believe it when I read something that hints of them taking on another contract to start to get us closer to (or under) the LT, but I can't see PTR going further over the LT. If Theo can move someone like Chatwood first AND Colorado throws in a ton of money, then I could see it happening.

Throwing in cash or taking on Chatwood are the same thing to me, essentially. Seeing as it’s just 1 year for Chatwood and any money thrown in, even if it’s like $3-5 million a year for the 5+ years of Arenado, the entire total is owed in cash to the acquiring team within the year. So $25-40 mil thrown in is actually more on a cash basis than just taking Chatwood seeing as all that money is owed this year.

Of course we may need to send a little extra with a prospect to have them throw in money and/or take some money in a player.
Last edited by Cubswin11 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby soccer10k » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:06 am

Backtobanks wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The projections systems for next year have them as pretty close players, FWIW.


Bryant:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .273/.377/.508, 12%BB, 22%K, .371 wOBA, 129 wRC+, 4.8 WAR
ZIPS: .271/.369/.506 4.5 WAR

Arenado:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .296/.371/.571 10%BB, 16%k, .381 wOBA, 124 wRC+, 5 WAR
ZIPS: .298/.367/.567 4.5 WAR.


So again, why should the Cubs make this deal?


They're pretty certain Bryant is leaving in FA in two years and either don't want to trade him for prospects or they think this is the best deal they'll get for him? Obviously we don't know the answers to any of these questions.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Backtobanks » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:24 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Because they may project Arenado more favorably moving forward, he’s controlled longer (I’m operating off the assumption if he’s traded he’s waiving his opt out rights as articles have mentioned), Arenado has been healthier and better more recently, projects to be able to stay at 3B longer, the Rockies are willing to pay down the deal and you’re getting Arenado at a discount, if we can throw Chatwood in him and Bryant are close to equaling out Arenado’s salary this year, maybe they like Arenado’s personality a bit to shake horsefeathers up like they’ve mentioned wanting, etc. You can still get under the LT this year acquiring Arenado and there’s still plenty of money to spend next offseason with him added.

I’d rather move Bryant for around an equally as good player, who’s controlled longer than for a prospect poo poo platter/pitchers who probably die.


We can all read the rumors and speculate, but I haven't read anything about Colorado taking on any other contracts. To tell the truth, some "rumors" have the Cubs sending along a prospect to get Arenado and cash. I haven't seen anything about them sending anywhere near the difference in salaries to keep the Cubs where they are financially or to reduce their salary obligations. I might believe it when I read something that hints of them taking on another contract to start to get us closer to (or under) the LT, but I can't see PTR going further over the LT. If Theo can move someone like Chatwood first AND Colorado throws in a ton of money, then I could see it happening.

Throwing in cash or taking on Chatwood are the same thing to me, essentially. Seeing as it’s just 1 year for Chatwood and any money thrown in, even if it’s like $3-5 million a year for the 5+ years of Arenado, the entire total is owed in cash to the acquiring team within the year. So $25-40 mil thrown in is actually more on a cash basis than just taking Chatwood seeing as all that money is owed this year.

Of course we may need to send a little extra with a prospect to have them throw in money and/or take some money in a player.


I don't see how $3-$5 million per year even begins to making a dent in his $35 million per year contract when you have basically the same player for $16 million less this year and probably $10 million less next year. Assuming Bryant opts for FA in 2 years, he probably would have trouble matching the $160 million over 5 years that would still be owed to Arenado and that's not counting the $26 million we would save for the two years we kept Bryant. All of that also doesn't figure in the fact that Arenado is almost two years older than Bryant.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Backtobanks » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:28 am

soccer10k wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The projections systems for next year have them as pretty close players, FWIW.


Bryant:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .273/.377/.508, 12%BB, 22%K, .371 wOBA, 129 wRC+, 4.8 WAR
ZIPS: .271/.369/.506 4.5 WAR

Arenado:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .296/.371/.571 10%BB, 16%k, .381 wOBA, 124 wRC+, 5 WAR
ZIPS: .298/.367/.567 4.5 WAR.


So again, why should the Cubs make this deal?


They're pretty certain Bryant is leaving in FA in two years and either don't want to trade him for prospects or they think this is the best deal they'll get for him? Obviously we don't know the answers to any of these questions.


I get not being sure about prospects, but Arenado is already making ridiculous FA money for the next 7 years. If Bryant leaves, the Cubs probably can attract a really good FA for the $35 million per year that Arenado is making.
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Re: RE: Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:34 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:The projections systems for next year have them as pretty close players, FWIW.


Bryant:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .273/.377/.508, 12%BB, 22%K, .371 wOBA, 129 wRC+, 4.8 WAR
ZIPS: .271/.369/.506 4.5 WAR

Arenado:
Steamer/Depth Charts: .296/.371/.571 10%BB, 16%k, .381 wOBA, 124 wRC+, 5 WAR
ZIPS: .298/.367/.567 4.5 WAR.


So again, why should the Cubs make this deal?
Because they arent confident in Bryant's desire to sign beyond 2021 and if they can get NA's opt-out waived then they will be in a stronger future position
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby UMFan83 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:43 pm







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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:38 pm

Bryant looks so growed up now. I promise to not cry if he is traded, which he won't be but I'm willing to keep pretending is a thing until the games start for max entertainment or something
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:44 pm

God I hate seeing our RotY/MVP/WS champion talk about being/not being traded
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:25 pm

That whole press conference was awesome.
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Re: RE: Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:53 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Because they arent confident in Bryant's desire to sign beyond 2021 and if they can get NA's opt-out waived then they will be in a stronger future position


Being locked into a player for FA-level money for their decline phase is not a stronger position. The whole point of signing guys to those deals is that you get surplus value in the early years, knowing that you'll probably eat it in the later years. You don't just want the later years when you don't have to take them.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:30 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:God I hate seeing our RotY/MVP/WS champion talk about being/not being traded


It's going to get worse too. Like if this offseason is an example of how Cubs fans see the players, imagine how we'll value the stars of The Future who aren't WS curse breaking former Golden Spikes turned #2 overall picks turned MiL POYS turned ML RoYs turned league MVPs...The Ricketts and the other owners got what they needed out of the offseason just between the Betts/Price deal and the feedback from fans on how Kris Bryant is valued, and all it took to hide was a handful of deals that may never get matched to a handful players...The one positive is that the Cubs might get Lindor for a shiny bag of balls, but at what true cost on our humanity?!?!

Turns out fans can tolerate prolonged and intentional losing, being known as Lovable Losers, the luxury tax as a cap, taxpayer dollars getting stolen for stadiums, capped amateur spending, automation for the sake more efficient sports entertainment, etc...but the possibility of tying up cap space on a super accomplished nice guy superstar drafted by the org with all the player features and tricks except switch hitting was a tipping point...Savage times
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:52 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:God I hate seeing our RotY/MVP/WS champion talk about being/not being traded


It's going to get worse too. Like if this offseason is an example of how Cubs fans see the players, imagine how we'll value the stars of The Future who aren't WS curse breaking former Golden Spikes turned #2 overall picks turned MiL POYS turned ML RoYs turned league MVPs...The Ricketts and the other owners got what they needed out of the offseason just between the Betts/Price deal and the feedback from fans on how Kris Bryant is valued, and all it took to hide was a handful of deals that may never get matched to a handful players...The one positive is that the Cubs might get Lindor for a shiny bag of balls, but at what true cost on our humanity?!?!

Turns out fans can tolerate prolonged and intentional losing, being known as Lovable Losers, the luxury tax as a cap, taxpayer dollars getting stolen for stadiums, capped amateur spending, automation for the sake more efficient sports entertainment, etc...but the possibility of tying up cap space on a super accomplished nice guy superstar drafted by the org with all the player features and tricks except switch hitting was a tipping point...Savage times


Wait, wait, wait...

What? Your worry is how the FANS value players as opposed to how the owners and the FO values them?
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:17 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Wait, wait, wait...

What? Your worry is how the FANS value players as opposed to how the owners and the FO values them?


What's our role then? Just innocent viewers who happen to increasingly be funding this stuff? If the owners have a massive essentially endless supply of players and their customers most value payroll efficiency, $/WAR, and The Future...Where's it supposed to go?
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:51 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Wait, wait, wait...

What? Your worry is how the FANS value players as opposed to how the owners and the FO values them?


What's our role then? Just innocent viewers who happen to increasingly be funding this stuff? If the owners have a massive essentially endless supply of players and their customers most value payroll efficiency, $/WAR, and The Future...Where's it supposed to go?


The fans are not driving these sorts of moves at all. That's a ridiculous idea.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Bull » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:08 am

Every time I see a new post in this thread I think there’s been a trade. /s
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Bear Cub » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:24 am

Who knows if KB will be dealt, but he is one classy young man and a stud player too.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:08 pm

Bull wrote:Every time I see a new post in this thread I think there’s been a trade. /s


Really? I just assume it's people responding to the voices in Tom's head.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby Post Count Padder » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:43 am

The Cubs and Padres discussed various scenarios involving third baseman Kris Bryant but were (obviously) unable to come to an agreement, Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union Tribune reports. Specifically, the Cubs showed interest in right-hander Dinelson Lamet. Catching prospect Luis Campusano was also a potential target.
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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby big ball chunky time » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:48 am

Post Count Padder wrote:
The Cubs and Padres discussed various scenarios involving third baseman Kris Bryant but were (obviously) unable to come to an agreement, Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union Tribune reports. Specifically, the Cubs showed interest in right-hander Dinelson Lamet. Catching prospect Luis Campusano was also a potential target.


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Re: Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:19 am

That's embarrassing for the Cubs, booooo
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