Kipnis to Cubs Minor League/NRI Contract

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Kipnis to Cubs Minor League/NRI Contract

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:14 pm

Sounds like it’s happening. Fine depth move, like it more if it’s to replace Descalso more than in addition to him on the 26-man. Career 113 wRC+ vs RHP, really good contact rates (80%+ in every recent year and for career), don’t mind him being in the 2B mix with Bote and Nico.

Last edited by Cubswin11 on Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:19 pm

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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Post Count Padder » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:23 pm

Honestly don't hate it. Good contact, good glove. Numbers have been meh but he's a nice bounceback/change of scenery candidate on that deal especially. Trade Almora and/or Descalso for something and then employ Kipnis/Happ/Nico between 2B and CF and I can get behind it.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Andy » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:26 pm

He's not much of a defender these days but a pretty good bench bat and platoon guy against righties. I like this.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:32 pm

I am predisposed to like Kipnis, which is good because I'm not sure how good a fit he is otherwise. He can't defend much, isn't enough of a LH bat to deserve any 1B or DH at bats over the alternatives, and even by 2B standards is a significant question mark. If there's a profile that might have a dead cat bounce in the right circumstances, it's his though. Similar to Edmonds in the high pedigree, control the zone type of bat, plus there's no reason for him ever to see a lefty with all the options available so he'll be put in the right spot to succeed.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:33 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote: If there's a profile that might have a dead cat bounce in the right circumstances, it's his though.


that's pretty much the only hope
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby 17 Seconds » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:33 pm

a thank you for yanking that slider foul
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby squally1313 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:45 pm

17 Seconds wrote:a thank you for yanking that slider foul

I think about that swing (and that gift of a pitch) probably once a week.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Post Count Padder » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:50 pm

Also worth noting that last season from June 16 and on he batted: .270/.332/.493 with a low BABIP. There might still be something there.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:50 pm

Boooooo. I wanted Scooter, but I also don't know the inner workings of what is going on there, so there is that.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Brian » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:52 pm

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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Backtobanks » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 pm

If he's replacing Descalso it's a great move, but there has to be a trade coming because Descalso is owed money.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 pm

Post Count Padder wrote:Also worth noting that last season from June 16 and on he batted: .270/.332/.493 with a low BABIP. There might still be something there.

His LD, Flyball and hard contact rates all jumped over his career numbers during that period and GB rate dropped below his career numbers too.

Also appears he took 4 games off the week before. So maybe he finally felt healthy and/or tweaked something and it clicked.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Bertz » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:17 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I am predisposed to like Kipnis, which is good because I'm not sure how good a fit he is otherwise. He can't defend much, isn't enough of a LH bat to deserve any 1B or DH at bats over the alternatives, and even by 2B standards is a significant question mark. If there's a profile that might have a dead cat bounce in the right circumstances, it's his though. Similar to Edmonds in the high pedigree, control the zone type of bat, plus there's no reason for him ever to see a lefty with all the options available so he'll be put in the right spot to succeed.


Yeah, I don't like him because he doesn't actually do anything particularly well. No huge platoon split that can be leverage, not a great defender, etc.

That being said he seems like he might be the most likely to bounce all the way back of these third tier 2B options. The difference between Kipnis in 2017-2019 and 2014-2016 appears to basically just be BABIP. He was a .324 guy earlier in his career and a .260 guy the last three years. It doesn't look like luck, as he's popping the ball up basically twice as much, but maybe there is some fairly black and white mechanical thing that can flip the switch back?
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Tim » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:33 pm

Bertz wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I am predisposed to like Kipnis, which is good because I'm not sure how good a fit he is otherwise. He can't defend much, isn't enough of a LH bat to deserve any 1B or DH at bats over the alternatives, and even by 2B standards is a significant question mark. If there's a profile that might have a dead cat bounce in the right circumstances, it's his though. Similar to Edmonds in the high pedigree, control the zone type of bat, plus there's no reason for him ever to see a lefty with all the options available so he'll be put in the right spot to succeed.


Yeah, I don't like him because he doesn't actually do anything particularly well. No huge platoon split that can be leverage, not a great defender, etc.

That being said he seems like he might be the most likely to bounce all the way back of these third tier 2B options. The difference between Kipnis in 2017-2019 and 2014-2016 appears to basically just be BABIP. He was a .324 guy earlier in his career and a .260 guy the last three years. It doesn't look like luck, as he's popping the ball up basically twice as much, but maybe there is some fairly black and white mechanical thing that can flip the switch back?

I liked Gennett better, but maybe he wouldn't take the minimum MiLB deal.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby David » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:39 pm

Backtobanks wrote:If he's replacing Descalso it's a great move, but there has to be a trade coming because Descalso is owed money.

Huh
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:53 pm

Kipnis to Cubs


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Re: Kipnis to Cubs Minor League/NRI Contract

Postby Post Count Padder » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:07 pm

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Re: Kipnis to Cubs Minor League/NRI Contract

Postby toonsterwu » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:51 am

I like it. Hey, it's a Minor League/NRI. Not that it means much, but he is a lifelong Cubs fan. He's definitely slowing down, but I wonder if he just needed time to heal and readjust. He was banged up a few years back, and IIRC, vaguely remember articles or chatter on blogs about his swing being out of whack. I don't think he'll ever be what he was ... but I do wonder if he can still be a solid starting caliber 2nd baseman. Considering I have my questions on Hoerner, and think Bote is more of a utility option, adding another option to the mix is a plus. At worst, it's just some wasted time. Most likely scenario? Cheap, useful bench option that provides leadership and work ethic.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Backtobanks » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:16 pm

David wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:If he's replacing Descalso it's a great move, but there has to be a trade coming because Descalso is owed money.

Huh


Descalso is owed $2.5 million this year and $1 million buyout in 2021. I can't see PTR eating $3.5 million while we're still over the LT.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
David wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:If he's replacing Descalso it's a great move, but there has to be a trade coming because Descalso is owed money.

Huh


Descalso is owed $2.5 million this year and $1 million buyout in 2021. I can't see PTR eating $3.5 million while we're still over the LT.

Just look at it like paying Kipnis $4 mil or so and be done with it.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby David » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:55 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
David wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:If he's replacing Descalso it's a great move, but there has to be a trade coming because Descalso is owed money.

Huh


Descalso is owed $2.5 million this year and $1 million buyout in 2021. I can't see PTR eating $3.5 million while we're still over the LT.


A sunk cost is a sunk cost. This isn't like Jason Heyward or something where you try to hold out and try to extract some value as long as possible because you have so much invested going forward. This is just some bum on the bench. If Kipnis is better and there are other more capable bench dudes ahead of him too, it would be horsefeathering stupid to keep him around because of his salary.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Tryptamine » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:55 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Post Count Padder wrote:Also worth noting that last season from June 16 and on he batted: .270/.332/.493 with a low BABIP. There might still be something there.

His LD, Flyball and hard contact rates all jumped over his career numbers during that period and GB rate dropped below his career numbers too.

Also appears he took 4 games off the week before. So maybe he finally felt healthy and/or tweaked something and it clicked.


He did make swing changes which is what I mentioned very early in the offseason. At the least he should be a desirable platoon bat with a chance at a bit more.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby hwmudgett » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:26 pm

17 Seconds wrote:a thank you for yanking that slider foul


Really? I mean it looked bad off the bat, but it ended up being a 280-ish(?) foot lazy fly ball that hung up so long that had it been fair - unless maybe right on the chalk - would almost certainly have been an out.

I definitely reacted when he initially hit it though which is probably all you're referencing.
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Re: Kipnis to Cubs

Postby Backtobanks » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:33 pm

David wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
David wrote:Huh


Descalso is owed $2.5 million this year and $1 million buyout in 2021. I can't see PTR eating $3.5 million while we're still over the LT.


A sunk cost is a sunk cost. This isn't like Jason Heyward or something where you try to hold out and try to extract some value as long as possible because you have so much invested going forward. This is just some bum on the bench. If Kipnis is better and there are other more capable bench dudes ahead of him too, it would be horsefeathering stupid to keep him around because of his salary.


I didn't mean a Descalso trade, I meant any trade to get us under the LT. According to PTR and the front office we can't afford ML contracts until we get below the LT. I don't have a problem with Descalso being a sunk cost, but then again I'm not PTR.
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