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 Post subject: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:15 pm 
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http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8528926/arizona-diamondbacks-acquire-heath-bell-trade-chris-young-pair-deals
'PHOENIX -- Heath Bell became the latest player jettisoned by the Miami Marlins when he was dealt Saturday to the Arizona Diamondbacks, who also acquired infielder Cliff Pennington from Oakland for outfielder Chris Young.

Arizona obtained Pennington and minor league infielder Yordy Cabrera from Oakland for Young and cash, then sent Cabrera to the Miami Marlins for Bell and cash."-

Edit: sorry about that. Mods are zippy.

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Not sure why AZ would want to pick up Bell and put him in a homer paradise. As for Oakland - where does this leave CoCo Crisp?


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Very nice move for Oakland.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:38 pm 
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so weird that trades can be made while the post season is still going on


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?


For Reddick? Absolutely not. For Cespedes, yeah I'd be game.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Tryptamine wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?


For Reddick? Absolutely not. For Cespedes, yeah I'd be game.


Interesting, I'm the opposite. Reddick is younger, has an extra year of team control, and had a better 2012.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?


For Reddick? Absolutely not. For Cespedes, yeah I'd be game.


Interesting, I'm the opposite. Reddick is younger, has an extra year of team control, and had a better 2012.

Reddick was only better if you really buy into the defensive metrics. Get Cespedes and move him out of CF.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Tim wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?


For Reddick? Absolutely not. For Cespedes, yeah I'd be game.


Interesting, I'm the opposite. Reddick is younger, has an extra year of team control, and had a better 2012.

Reddick was only better if you really buy into the defensive metrics. Get Cespedes and move him out of CF.


You have to regress the defensive metrics really hard to get to a point where Reddick didn't have a better year.

Code:
                 Fangraphs                BRef
Player      Total WAR   dWAR       Total WAR   dWAR
Cespedes       3.1      -0.9           3.4     -1.1
Reddick        4.8       1.8           4.5      1.3


Cespedes spent half the year in LF, and the defensive metrics didn't think it was much better. He also DHed 26 times to Reddick's 11. With that type of agreement, plus the extra year of prime team control, it's a pretty easy call for me.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:08 pm 
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I would take either one, but I have to think Crisp is the goner of their OFers.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:04 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?

I would, probably for either him or Cespedes. Whats an equivalent though? Jackson, Villanueva, Barney, and Candelario? Obviously, the Nats sent a pitching heavy package, but I'd think the value is close to the same.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Dear sweet [expletive] Jesus, I would kill for either, but especially Cespedes. RIGHT THE WRONG, THEO.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:17 am 
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Why in the hell would the A's trade Cespedes or Reddick? If one of their OFers is going to go, it's gonna be Crisp, unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:17 am 
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XZero77 wrote:
Why in the hell would the A's trade Cespedes or Reddick? If one of their OFers is going to go, it's gonna be Crisp, unfortunately.


They wouldn't move them to get rid of an OF, it would be for the sake of the return. Crisp would bring back nothing of value. I can't see Cespedes moving, but Reddick is very possible.

In addition to Cespedes, Young, Reddick, and Crisp, they have Seth Smith, and Michael Choice might not be too far away. There's also Michael Taylor if they havnt yet given up on him. With Pennington gone, I'm not sure who they have in mind for SS, so Darwin Barney could be a piece of the package, and I'll stress just a piece. Vogelbach could be as well.

I'd love to put together something big for Reddick and one of the As young pitchers.

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:33 am 
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Yeah, Reddick over Cespedes. I'm not convinced Cespedes is going to get considerably better at age 27. Reddick is a year and a half younger, and is not the .242 hitter he was this year. I expect him to be more like the .880 OPS hitter he was in the first half of the season with a 260-270ish average and probably even more walks. Seems like he wore out some down the stretch in what was his first full ML season.

Plus, Reddick has ties with this FO, being a former Red Sox prospect/player. I'd love to get Reddick and one of their young arms for almost whatever they want. I MIGHT be willing to trade Baez if it's Reddick and Anderson coming to the Cubs, and not much more going Oakland's way in terms of big time prospects. But I think it could work without Javy, but the Cubs may be left with only Baez and players drafted/signed in the last 6 months (though those are some damn good prospects to have left).

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 am 
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Baez is pretty much our best prospect, and a potential stud house. And I was about to say no way until I looked at Anderson's contract. Yes, sign me up.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:21 am 
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Anyone else read that as Cy Young to Athletics?

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:42 am 
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biittner77 wrote:
Anyone else read that as Cy Young to Athletics?


Necromancy, the new market inefficiency.

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:38 pm 
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rawaction wrote:
Yeah, Reddick over Cespedes. I'm not convinced Cespedes is going to get considerably better at age 27. Reddick is a year and a half younger, and is not the .242 hitter he was this year. I expect him to be more like the .880 OPS hitter he was in the first half of the season with a 260-270ish average and probably even more walks. Seems like he wore out some down the stretch in what was his first full ML season.

Plus, Reddick has ties with this FO, being a former Red Sox prospect/player. I'd love to get Reddick and one of their young arms for almost whatever they want. I MIGHT be willing to trade Baez if it's Reddick and Anderson coming to the Cubs, and not much more going Oakland's way in terms of big time prospects. But I think it could work without Javy, but the Cubs may be left with only Baez and players drafted/signed in the last 6 months (though those are some damn good prospects to have left).

for Brett Anderson and Reddick, i'd give Baez a personal piggy-back ride all the way to Oakland

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Is the major appeal of Reddick team control?

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:30 pm 
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davell wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Rosenthal floating the idea that Beane might listen to offers for Cespedes or Reddick. Would anyone give up a Gio Gonzalez package to add Reddick?

I would, probably for either him or Cespedes. Whats an equivalent though? Jackson, Villanueva, Barney, and Candelario? Obviously, the Nats sent a pitching heavy package, but I'd think the value is close to the same.


I don't know about that. We have to take some things into consideration such as

a) Pitching prospects tend to get ... over-protected a bit.
b) Brad Peacock and AJ Cole were coming off excellent seasons last year. Things have changed a year later, as both Peacock and Cole had their ups and downs.
c) Norris was a very good catching prospect.

It's really hard to draw any parallels between trades, as they exist in their own environment, but I'd probably value the Gio package more than Jackson/Villanueva/Barney/Candelario grouping. Leaving aside the fact that I doubt they'd pursue Jackson if they dealt an OF (not impossible, I guess), does that package make that much sense for the A's? I could see them have interest in Barney, though.

In saying all that, I'm not exactly sold that a package similar to the Nats Gio deal is needed in a hypoethetical trade. That said, I also think that, at the end, they'll just shop Coco.

_______

As for this deal, I find it fascinating on several levels. Obviously, the Fish were going to move on from Heath Bell, and getting an intriguing, albeit really questionable, prospect in Yordy Cabrera was a nice move. The A's send a struggling prospect with clear holes and a dime-a-dozen MI for Chris Young. Much as I have never been big on Young, that, on paper, is a good move. The Dbacks side is probably the one that I'm most lukewarm on, but even then, getting Heath Bell at a much lower rate and a decent MI seems like a decent move to clear a loaded OF and save them some money.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:41 am 
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The Logan wrote:
Is the major appeal of Reddick team control?


That and power and great defense.


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:41 am 
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If it gets [expletive] on, so it gets [expletive] on:

A's get:
-Barney
-Vogelbach
-Marmol: Cubs eat 75% salary
-1 of: Szczur/Jackson/Lake
-1 of: Alcantara/Amaya/Hernandez/Villanueva/Candelario
-Hayden Simpson (throw in)

Cubs get
Reddick
Ian Krol: high ceiling with Hx injury, douchebagery.
Michael Taylor ( reclamation)

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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:14 am 
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[expletive] on


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 Post subject: Re: C Young to Athletics
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:20 am 
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THEORY slide castro slide is actually a spambot trying to generate traffic to gif/meme sites by attempting to turn every thread into nothing but people posting pictures making fun of him

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