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 Post subject: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:06 am 
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Total Theo/Jed move

http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/11/0 ... o-liriano/

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:20 am 
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We're reportedly in the market for 2 starting pitcher. As long as he's the other one, it works for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:31 am 
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If we wind up eith 2 of Liriano, Marcum, and McCarthy, which is starting to seem plausible, we definitely need to add a 3rd SP as well. Hell, maybe a 4th, due to injury concerns with those guys and Garza too.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:32 am 
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davell wrote:
If we wind up eith 2 of Liriano, Marcum, and McCarthy, which is starting to seem plausible, we definitely need to add a 3rd SP as well. Hell, maybe a 4th, due to injury concerns with those guys and Garza too.

Casey Coleman can handle it.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:46 am 
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Post Count Padder wrote:
davell wrote:
If we wind up eith 2 of Liriano, Marcum, and McCarthy, which is starting to seem plausible, we definitely need to add a 3rd SP as well. Hell, maybe a 4th, due to injury concerns with those guys and Garza too.

Casey Coleman can handle it.

Part of me thinks he actually DOES hold value to this group. Midseason rolls around, half the rotation gets dealt off, who's a better bet to move you up in the Fecal League than Coleman? I bet he gets moved off the 40 man soon though, we need to open up a few more spots. But he'll be at Iowa, waiting patiently to throw his straight mid 80s heat be everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:50 am 
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Oh come on.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:58 am 
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I like the risk and one thing that we have learned so far about Jed/Theo is that they seem to be pretty disciplined on free agent deals. I would expect that if an offer is out there is it is similar to Maholm's deal last year, where they are only on the hook for one year and have an option in case the coaching staff fixes something and he turns out to be good.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:26 am 
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So we didn't really mean the whole "control the strike zone" mantra.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:34 am 
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Liriano has been one of my favorite players since before he debuted in the majors and even I'm a little apathetic about signing him. Wouldn't be against it by any means, but I'd really hope they get someone better than him as the supposed 2nd pitcher we're trying to obtain. If he's the best one they're targeting that would be kinda lame.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:49 am 
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I'm not particularly excited about Liriano. I just can't envision any team willing to give up much at the deadline for him. Only once since 2008 has he posted a WAR above 1.8. He's about last on my list of choices.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:08 pm 
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I can hardly believe the wet blanketry happening in this thread. This is a good upside move with little risk if we give him market value for one year.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
I can hardly believe the wet blanketry happening in this thread. This is a good upside move with little risk if we give him market value for one year.


The risk is that we're using up one of our rotation spots on a guy who walked 5 per 9 last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:13 pm 
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KyleJRM wrote:
Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
I can hardly believe the wet blanketry happening in this thread. This is a good upside move with little risk if we give him market value for one year.


The risk is that we're using up one of our rotation spots on a guy who walked 5 per 9 last year.

Thats kind of what we have Bosio for though, isn't it? To me, it'd be a fine move, provided we add some depth, to insure against injury risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:19 pm 
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davell wrote:
Thats kind of what we have Bosio for though, isn't it?


We've all of a sudden gotten the idea as a fandom that it's really easy to turn bad major league players into good ones via coaching.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:28 pm 
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In Liriano's case, his walk rate had been acceptable or better until the past two seasons. I'd say it's much more likely he's fixable than a guy who's always had control issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:29 pm 
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The Cubs have money and a desperate need for capable arms to fill out the rotation. I don't see how this would be a bad thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:32 pm 
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to be fair, there's only one complete [expletive] idiot who thinks this is a terrible thing

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:32 pm 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
The Cubs have money and a desperate need for capable arms to fill out the rotation. I don't see how this would be a bad thing.


I don't know that it's bad, but it's probably the worst of the available options.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Tryptamine wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
The Cubs have money and a desperate need for capable arms to fill out the rotation. I don't see how this would be a bad thing.


I don't know that it's bad, but it's probably the worst of the available options.


This. Liriano is fine, but there are better options available. I kinda view him as a consolation prize for missing out on McCarthy or Marcum. Nice to have at the end of the day, but not what you really wanted.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Me like

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:45 pm 
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The Logan wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
The Cubs have money and a desperate need for capable arms to fill out the rotation. I don't see how this would be a bad thing.


I don't know that it's bad, but it's probably the worst of the available options.


This. Liriano is fine, but there are better options available. I kinda view him as a consolation prize for missing out on McCarthy or Marcum. Nice to have at the end of the day, but not what you really wanted.


Understandable. But if there are better options, it also means there is a bigger market for those options. The most difficult part in getting guys like Marcum or McCarthy to come here is not really the money. It's trying to convince them to sign for just one year while also just being a 3-month rental. They can sign where they want for one year and go to a good team. So, it can be a tough sell.

That's why it's too bad Haren was injured. It was perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:48 pm 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
The Cubs have money and a desperate need for capable arms to fill out the rotation. I don't see how this would be a bad thing.


I guess it depends on how you define 'bad thing.'

Would it be better than not signing anyone to fill that spot and riding the Casey Coleman train? Yes.

Do I think we can find two better bets with our resources this offseason? Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Tryptamine wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
The Cubs have money and a desperate need for capable arms to fill out the rotation. I don't see how this would be a bad thing.


I don't know that it's bad, but it's probably the worst of the available options.


That's probably not anywhere close to true. There's got to be dozens of available worse options.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:07 pm 
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davell wrote:
In Liriano's case, his walk rate had been acceptable or better until the past two seasons. I'd say it's much more likely he's fixable than a guy who's always had control issues.


That's true, but it still doesn't say anything about how fixable he actually is.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs (Reportedly) Make Offer to Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Could be worse.


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