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 Post subject: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:06 pm 
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According to Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo in today's "Your Morning Phil (Rogers)". Note, you need a Tribune subscription to read the link, but I'll post the content below.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-your-morning-phil-stanton-myers-short-20121126,0,6121031.story

Quote:
How seriously are the Cubs pursuing Giancarlo Stanton? Would the Marlins really trade him before next season?

Those could turn into the most intriguing questions of the next month for Chicago baseball. Because if the Marlins are to deal Stanton – and why wouldn’t they, at this point? – there are few teams positioned as well to land him as the one run by Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer.

The Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo wrote Sunday that the Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies and Orioles have joined the Cubs in exploring Stanton’s availability. But of those teams, only Baltimore has a young stud position player under a long-term contract and, unlike Starlin Castro, Adam Jones has no-trade protection in the six-year, $85.5-million deal he signed last May.

Castro agreed to a seven-year, $60 million deal without no-trade protection. That means he could be a relatively affordable piece for the Marlins to build around who is under their control through 2020. They could find that attractive when comparing him to an unhappy Stanton.

What about the relative value of Stanton and Castro?

Stanton, who is under control only until he hits free agency after 2016, has established himself as the game’s best young power hitter and is only five months older than Castro, the game’s top young shortstop.

Both Stanton and Castro arrived in the big leagues during the 2010 season. Castro has played more games – establishing himself as extremely durable – and piled up 529 hits and a career .297 average. Stanton is a .270 hitter but has 93 home runs in 373 games, demonstrating the power to hit 40 homers a year, if not 50. He led the National League with a .608 slugging percentage this year, and has a career OPS of .903, compared to Castro’s .761.

Some question whether Castro will remain at shortstop, as he’s error prone and at times shows a tendency to be an airhead. But Bill James says he saved the Cubs three runs last year, a total that ranked him between Cliff Pennington and Erick Aybar, who are both considered more than adequate defensively. The athletic Stanton is considered an asset in right field, saving the Marlins 10 runs last year, according to the James metric.

While Castro has averaged 24 stolen bases in his two full seasons, he led the NL with 13 caught stealing last year. James’ metrics rank Stanton as a better baserunner but clearly the upside there is on Castro’s side.

Could the Cubs pull off a Stanton trade? I think they could, if they offered the Marlins their choice of Castro or future superstar shortstop Javier Baez, who is probably two years away from the big leagues.

While I love Castro, you couldn’t blink if the Cubs moved him to get Stanton and a package including Yunel Escobar, who would supplant Junior Lake as the most likely place-holder for Baez. Escobar might be persona non grata at Wrigley Field because of the gay slur he stupidly wore on his face last season, but images always can be rehabbed. If his can’t be, then he could be cut loose as he’s owed only $5 million through next year (with club options for 2014 and ’15).

There’s been talk about Stanton bringing a “Herschel Walker’’ package if the Marlins do trade him. The problem with that theory is teams rarely trade their young assets. When I look around the majors, I don’t see many proven players under 25 who you can argue are part of a positional surplus. Because of Baez and the Cubs' rebuilding plans, it works with Castro, which is why I think they bear watching closely if the Marlins are ready to make their Stanton trade.

They’re going to make one. We know it, and they know it. The only question is when.

Whether it happens at the winter meetings next week or in the middle of the season, the quiet talks between the Cubs and Marlins could become blaring headlines. A package headed by Castro and Dan Vogelbach and including another two or three prospects – say Brett Jackson, center fielder Jae-Hoon Ha and shortstop Arismendy Alcantara – could be better than anyone else is offering.

While Stanton won’t help the Cubs contend in 2013 and maybe not ’14, for him they become the team he hoped the Marlins would be – one committed toward surrounding him with a winning nucleus when he’s in the prime of his career. And they can afford to offer him a long-term contract immediately.

When you think about it, it’s easy to picture the marriage.


How awesome would it be to have both Rizzo and Stanton back-to-back in the order for years to come!


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:10 pm 
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dfnowak wrote:
According to Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo in today's "Your Morning Phil (Rogers)". Note, you need a Tribune subscription to read the link, but I'll post the content below.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-your-morning-phil-stanton-myers-short-20121126,0,6121031.story

Quote:
How seriously are the Cubs pursuing Giancarlo Stanton? Would the Marlins really trade him before next season?

Those could turn into the most intriguing questions of the next month for Chicago baseball. Because if the Marlins are to deal Stanton – and why wouldn’t they, at this point? – there are few teams positioned as well to land him as the one run by Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer.

The Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo wrote Sunday that the Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies and Orioles have joined the Cubs in exploring Stanton’s availability. But of those teams, only Baltimore has a young stud position player under a long-term contract and, unlike Starlin Castro, Adam Jones has no-trade protection in the six-year, $85.5-million deal he signed last May.

Castro agreed to a seven-year, $60 million deal without no-trade protection. That means he could be a relatively affordable piece for the Marlins to build around who is under their control through 2020. They could find that attractive when comparing him to an unhappy Stanton.

What about the relative value of Stanton and Castro?

Stanton, who is under control only until he hits free agency after 2016, has established himself as the game’s best young power hitter and is only five months older than Castro, the game’s top young shortstop.

Both Stanton and Castro arrived in the big leagues during the 2010 season. Castro has played more games – establishing himself as extremely durable – and piled up 529 hits and a career .297 average. Stanton is a .270 hitter but has 93 home runs in 373 games, demonstrating the power to hit 40 homers a year, if not 50. He led the National League with a .608 slugging percentage this year, and has a career OPS of .903, compared to Castro’s .761.

Some question whether Castro will remain at shortstop, as he’s error prone and at times shows a tendency to be an airhead. But Bill James says he saved the Cubs three runs last year, a total that ranked him between Cliff Pennington and Erick Aybar, who are both considered more than adequate defensively. The athletic Stanton is considered an asset in right field, saving the Marlins 10 runs last year, according to the James metric.

While Castro has averaged 24 stolen bases in his two full seasons, he led the NL with 13 caught stealing last year. James’ metrics rank Stanton as a better baserunner but clearly the upside there is on Castro’s side.

Could the Cubs pull off a Stanton trade? I think they could, if they offered the Marlins their choice of Castro or future superstar shortstop Javier Baez, who is probably two years away from the big leagues.

While I love Castro, you couldn’t blink if the Cubs moved him to get Stanton and a package including Yunel Escobar, who would supplant Junior Lake as the most likely place-holder for Baez. Escobar might be persona non grata at Wrigley Field because of the gay slur he stupidly wore on his face last season, but images always can be rehabbed. If his can’t be, then he could be cut loose as he’s owed only $5 million through next year (with club options for 2014 and ’15).

There’s been talk about Stanton bringing a “Herschel Walker’’ package if the Marlins do trade him. The problem with that theory is teams rarely trade their young assets. When I look around the majors, I don’t see many proven players under 25 who you can argue are part of a positional surplus. Because of Baez and the Cubs' rebuilding plans, it works with Castro, which is why I think they bear watching closely if the Marlins are ready to make their Stanton trade.

They’re going to make one. We know it, and they know it. The only question is when.

Whether it happens at the winter meetings next week or in the middle of the season, the quiet talks between the Cubs and Marlins could become blaring headlines. A package headed by Castro and Dan Vogelbach and including another two or three prospects – say Brett Jackson, center fielder Jae-Hoon Ha and shortstop Arismendy Alcantara – could be better than anyone else is offering.

While Stanton won’t help the Cubs contend in 2013 and maybe not ’14, for him they become the team he hoped the Marlins would be – one committed toward surrounding him with a winning nucleus when he’s in the prime of his career. And they can afford to offer him a long-term contract immediately.

When you think about it, it’s easy to picture the marriage.


How awesome would it be to have both Rizzo and Stanton back-to-back in the order for years to come!

FFS, just die already Phil Rogers

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Whether it happens at the winter meetings next week or in the middle of the season, the quiet talks between the Cubs and Marlins could become blaring headlines. A package headed by Castro and Dan Vogelbach and including another two or three prospects – say Brett Jackson, center fielder Jae-Hoon Ha and shortstop Arismendy Alcantara – could be better than anyone else is offering.

in a perfect world, we could even swap Castro for Baez, and even include Soler if the Fish insist, given their earlier presumed interest

this also seems more like the Marlins modus operandi for firesales, preferring the high-ceiling prospect (Miller, Maybin, Hanley, Marisnick) who's yet to reach the majors (read: league minimum)


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:21 pm 
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sneakypower wrote:
Quote:
Whether it happens at the winter meetings next week or in the middle of the season, the quiet talks between the Cubs and Marlins could become blaring headlines. A package headed by Castro and Dan Vogelbach and including another two or three prospects – say Brett Jackson, center fielder Jae-Hoon Ha and shortstop Arismendy Alcantara – could be better than anyone else is offering.

in a perfect world, we could even swap Castro for Baez, and even include Soler if the Fish insist, given their earlier presumed interest

this also seems more like the Marlins modus operandi for firesales, preferring the high-ceiling prospect (Miller, Maybin, Hanley, Marisnick) who's yet to reach the majors

Soler (or Almora or any of the other 2012 draft/signees) can't be traded, even as a PTBNL. They could be included as PTBNL around a trade in like February +/- a month, I think. The rule is you have to hold onto a guy for a year before trading him after signing/drafting him and a PTBNL needs to be named/traded no later than 6 months after a trade.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:21 pm 
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1) It's not happening

2) If it were, proverbial blank freaking check, unless you are really worried about his knees.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Zero chance of this happening, but if Theo or any other major-league front office type WEREN'T at least inquiring about Stanton, it'd be a fireable offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:29 pm 
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This thread has 30 pages long written all over it. With similar results

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:33 pm 
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biittner77 wrote:
This thread has 30 pages long written all over it. With similar results

I think it's multiple years before the Marlins actually trade him. They have way too much scrutiny on them this offseason to trade Stanton, and they've still got another year before he gets expensive. My guess is that they suck next year and then trade him "to improve other areas of the team" or some other stupid reason. I hope it's true, because the Cubs will be in a much better position to make a play for him next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:09 pm 
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KingCubsFan wrote:
biittner77 wrote:
This thread has 30 pages long written all over it. With similar results

I think it's multiple years before the Marlins actually trade him. They have way too much scrutiny on them this offseason to trade Stanton, and they've still got another year before he gets expensive.


Yeah, not sure why somebody would write "why wouldn't they deal Stanton now" when the answer to the question is obvious. For all the uproad they traded away mediocre expensive players. That's a justifiable stance to take. Dealing away a really good cheaper player is completely opposite of what they were doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:25 pm 
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I want to punch Phil Rogers in the face.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:32 pm 
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The Logan wrote:
I want to punch Phil Rogers in the face.

We all do. But what did you think of the article?


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:33 pm 
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I want to punch that article in the face.

All it's going to do is force me to take a call from my brother saying "Looks like the Cubs are going after Stanton, huh?" and then I'll explain how it's nothing and he'll say "THE [expletive] ARTICLE SAYS WE'RE LOOKING INTO STANTON, HOW THE HELL ARE YOU SITTING HERE TELLING ME THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT"

Then we'll get into an argument which will end up with me calling him an [expletive] for believing what Phil Rogers writes, then he'll call me gay, tell me to go [expletive] myself, talk trash about Billy Beane and Moneyball, and hang up on me.

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:19 pm 
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I personally think this is going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:22 pm 
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This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Nuts&Gum wrote:
This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


If it meant we got Stanton, I would volunteer to let you do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Nuts&Gum wrote:
This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


Do the Marlins have any contracts left to absorb.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:
This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


Do the Marlins have any contracts left to absorb.


I really doubt it. Isn't their payroll down to like 27M or something like that?


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:02 pm 
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stanton in wrigley would be the best spectacle since sosa


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:
This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


Do the Marlins have any contracts left to absorb.


Why not throw in Soriano, fully paid?

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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Tryptamine wrote:
Brian wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:
This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


Do the Marlins have any contracts left to absorb.


I really doubt it. Isn't their payroll down to like 27M or something like that?


Still too much for the Great Satan.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:03 pm 
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ctcf wrote:
Brian wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:
This will happen. The Cubs will use Absorbition of Any and All Contracts-power as the ingredient to push it over the top. Then I get to punch Kyle in the face with Andy's face.


Do the Marlins have any contracts left to absorb.


Why not throw in Soriano, fully paid?


YOU'RE NEXT, SQUIRTBOY.


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 Post subject: Re: Cubs exploring Giancarlo Stanton's availability
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:10 pm 
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:read: ITS GONNA HAPPEN


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