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 Post subject: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Figured we could use one of these...especially with the winter meetings coming up.


Marlin Bystro at PSD posted this this morning...

Marlin Bystro wrote:
The Cubs could be dark horses on Bourn.


http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showth ... st24518840


Also, ABTY7 mentioned this...

ABTY7 wrote:
Cubs/Yankees spoke (again) yesterday...


http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showth ... st24519230

I believe there were some Granderson rumors floating around...not sure if that's what it'd be in regard to.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:09 pm 
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@BruceMiles2112 #Cubs likely to have a couple of players non-tendered, GM Hoyer says


This surprises me, since the non-tender candidates are:

Shark (nope)
Garza (not unless his arm fell off yesterday)
Russell (nope)
Stewart
Valbuena

I wouldn't think they'd non-tender both the 3B, would they? Especially after the decent season Valbuena put together.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

I wouldn't think they'd non-tender both the 3B, would they? Especially after the decent season Valbuena put together.


Unless they had something in the works for another 3B, I don't see any reason they would, or could afford to, really.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Maybe they've got a line on cheaper deals for both? It's not like Ian Stewart couldn't be re-signed for an NRI if they really wanted him back.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Stewart I figure is non-tendered regardless of whether he's coming back or not(my guess is not). Valbuena barely made more than the minimum last year, so unless they want to non-tender him in an effort to save 50 grand or something, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Interesting on Bourn, for the right contract I like it. But he doesn't seem like a guy who is gonna age well as him whole game is predicated on his speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Stewart I figure is non-tendered regardless of whether he's coming back or not(my guess is not). Valbuena barely made more than the minimum last year, so unless they want to non-tender him in an effort to save 50 grand or something, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.


I guess I'm thinking either one could get a big league contract from someone.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:34 pm 
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With Garza due to make 10 mill +, I'm hoping we're not flirting with NTing him, because of salary and potential lack of health.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:36 pm 
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davell wrote:
With Garza due to make 10 mill +, I'm hoping we're not flirting with NTing him, because of salary and potential lack of health.


The twisted part of me that is fascinated by terrible things would find that very amusing.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Quote:
@BruceMiles2112 #Cubs likely to have a couple of players non-tendered, GM Hoyer says


This surprises me, since the non-tender candidates are:

Shark (nope)
Garza (not unless his arm fell off yesterday)
Russell (nope)
Stewart
Valbuena

I wouldn't think they'd non-tender both the 3B, would they? Especially after the decent season Valbuena put together.


I can't imagine they would miss either or both of those guys if they were unable to resign them on minor league deals.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Side note: I'd really like to see the media refer to it as "Team X will not tender Player Y a contract" instead of using non-tender as an active verb.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Jordan Bernfield
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#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

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 Post subject: Re: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:10 pm 
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David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Vote of no confidence for Jackson.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:11 pm 
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David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.


*sproing*


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:37 pm 
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David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Cubswin11 wrote:
David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then


No, thanks.

Unless the entire market realizes this and he has to take far less than he is expected to get.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:44 pm 
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David wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then


No, thanks.

Unless the entire market realizes this and he has to take far less than he is expected to get.


Sign him up without question.

No brainer for the Cubs in their situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:47 pm 
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David wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then


No, thanks.

Unless the entire market realizes this and he has to take far less than he is expected to get.


Hamilton is a bad fit. I wouldn't feel comfortable going beyond 2-3 years with him, and given where the Cubs are now, that wouldn't make much sense.

That said, Hamilton at a reasonable price for 3 years wouldn't bother me, but someone is going to give him 4-5, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:48 pm 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then


No, thanks.

Unless the entire market realizes this and he has to take far less than he is expected to get.


Sign him up without question.

No brainer for the Cubs in their situation.


I agree, giving Hamilton what he's looking for would be a no brain move.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:49 pm 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then


No, thanks.

Unless the entire market realizes this and he has to take far less than he is expected to get.


Sign him up without question.

No brainer for the Cubs in their situation.


He is 32 next season and was very bad (given what he's going to command) after May in 2012. His K rate was up significantly last year. In fact,in the last couple months of last year he was up around 35%.

Giving him 100M+ for 5-6 years is a no-brainer all right... in one direction.

Not to mention that whole sorta kinda crazy history he has.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:56 pm 
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David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
David wrote:
Jordan Bernfield
‏@JordanBernfield
#Cubs Hoyer: "We have to address our outfield and we'll look to do that." Says prospects are far enough away they're not blocking w/ vets.

Go out and get Hamilton then


No, thanks.

Unless the entire market realizes this and he has to take far less than he is expected to get.


Sign him up without question.

No brainer for the Cubs in their situation.


He is 32 next season and was very bad (given what he's going to command) after May in 2012. His K rate was up significantly last year. In fact,in the last couple months of last year he was up around 35%.

Giving him 100M+ for 5-6 years is a no-brainer all right... in one direction.

Not to mention that whole sorta kinda crazy history he has.


The biggest red flag is his inability to stay on the field. Add his age to that, and you have a recipe for disaster if you sign him long term.

That substance abuse history is an afterthought.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:58 pm 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
I wouldn't think they'd non-tender both the 3B, would they? Especially after the decent season Valbuena put together.


I can't imagine they would miss either or both of those guys if they were unable to resign them on minor league deals.


Valbuena was a league average 3B making < 500k, so I don't think they're getting him on a MiLB deal and there's no cost savings to non-tendering him. It wouldn't be back-breaking to replace him, but considering they don't have anyone who can come close to that right now, I don't see much benefit to not keeping him around for the time being, especially since he can easily slide to a bench role with his ability to play 2B.


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Promising to address the bullpen, saying that there's no need to worry about FA OFers blocking prospects. We're back to the part where the front office says all the right things. Optimism rising?


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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:50 pm 
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I know for the misguided self flagellaters it doesn't make sense to add players who are better than anybody else you could possibly get but in the real world of sane people that is the goal.

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 Post subject: Re: Misc. Cubs offseason rumor discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:19 pm 
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jersey cubs fan wrote:
I know for the misguided self flagellaters it doesn't make sense to add players who are better than anybody else you could possibly get but in the real world of sane people that is the goal.


Yeah, we're the misguided ones. Let's just ignore context and sign the best player on the market, regardless of the red flags (of which there are many) surrounding him and the terms he's asking for, simply because he's the best player right now (though wasn't even all that great post-May).

That'd be bright (or reckless, stupid, and otherwise ill-advised).

Even the meatball ex-player "analysts" are advising extreme caution with Hamilton, and that should tell you something. At least with most aging stars you can have some confidence they'll be able to take the field 150 times a year. Hamilton is the very definition of volatile, and the fact that the market for him isn't taking shape under his current demands reflects that. You can make a case that passing on some of the players the FO has passed on was due to being overly cautious, but not in Hamilton's case.

But hey, let's just give him the 5+/100+ he's asking for because we can. [expletive] brilliant.


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