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Re: Fowler

Postby dawson1989 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:29 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Bull wrote:No way he signs if he has any indication he's a "fourth outfielder"


Seriously

Get over him folks, he's not even that good. I narrate him as the guy who gave the Cubs the confidence to understand that they can, and should, do much better.


He's was a 3 WAR player last year. That makes him pretty, pretty, pretty good. As good as many on here seem to believe? No. As worthless as you seem to believe? No.

Fowler should not accept a non-starter role unless winning is more important than playing.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:35 am

dawson1989 wrote:As good as many on here seem to believe? No.


Who here has been talking about him like that?
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Re: Fowler

Postby dawson1989 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:37 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
dawson1989 wrote:As good as many on here seem to believe? No.


Who here has been talking about him like that?


Everyone who would be super excited if he resigns which a few at the beginning of the thread seemed to be.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:48 am

There was one dude saying he thought it would be a good idea before pretty much everyone else said they were against it, or didn't want to do it if it meant Soler was gone.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:52 am

And then there's that StylesClash dude, but he's a Cardinals fan, so whatever.
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Re: Fowler

Postby davell » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:58 am

I think my ideal OF move at this stage is to trade Coghlan for the best minor league pitcher he'll bring and sign Austin Jackson.
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Re: Fowler

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:02 am

davell wrote:I think my ideal OF move at this stage is to trade Coghlan for the best minor league pitcher he'll bring and sign Austin Jackson.


Someone suggested Justus Sheffield a while back, maybe. I'd be into that and another arm like Plutko or Maronde. I'd be willing to sacrifice and take just one Triston McKenzie.

Some others that might be fun:

To the Astros for RHP Akeem Bostick, LHP Michael Freeman, and LHP Tommy Shirley
To the Orioles for LHPs Tanner Scott, and Chris Lee
To the Angels for LHPs Greg Mahle and Nate Smith
To the Nats for RHP AJ Cole
To the Marlins for LHP Justin Nicolino or LHP Chris Reed
To the Twins for RHP Alex Meyer or LHP Taylor Rogers and RHP Michael Cederoth

Over optimistic on some? Under?
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Re: Fowler

Postby StylesClash » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:30 pm

While Fowler obviously wouldn't want to be a fourth outfield, I wouldn't at all be opposed to giving him nine or ten million to fill that role. Fowler could platoon with Schwarber (which would do wonder's for Schwarber's OPS and help keep him fresh for September and October). And he'd also provide insurance against a Heyward injury or Soler underachieving. Plus he'd make an excellent pinch hitter against tough lefty relievers, and provide quality speed off the bench.

If Fowler accepted a one year deal worth around nine million a clause could be inserted into his contract which would ensure the Cubs couldn't offer him a qualifying offer. Not being tied to draft pick compensation, along with a much weaker free agent outfield class, should help Fowler get a better deal next offseason. Plus it's not as if being a fourth outfielder for a year would hurt Fowler's value significantly. He's shown for years he's a capable starter.

Sammy Sofa wrote:And then there's that StylesClash dude, but he's a Cardinals fan, so whatever.


That poor poor dead horse. You beat him and beat him, and then came back for more :(
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Re: Fowler

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:49 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:I think my ideal OF move at this stage is to trade Coghlan for the best minor league pitcher he'll bring and sign Austin Jackson.


Someone suggested Justus Sheffield a while back, maybe. I'd be into that and another arm like Plutko or Maronde. I'd be willing to sacrifice and take just one Triston McKenzie.

Some others that might be fun:

To the Astros for RHP Akeem Bostick, LHP Michael Freeman, and LHP Tommy Shirley
To the Orioles for LHPs Tanner Scott, and Chris Lee
To the Angels for LHPs Greg Mahle and Nate Smith
To the Nats for RHP AJ Cole
To the Marlins for LHP Justin Nicolino or LHP Chris Reed
To the Twins for RHP Alex Meyer or LHP Taylor Rogers and RHP Michael Cederoth

Over optimistic on some? Under?

My targets for him on the Angels would be Skaggs or Tropeano, even if we would have to add a little bit more.
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Re: Fowler

Postby davell » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:59 pm

I think some of Gato's trades are realistic. I don't think Cole or Meyer would be on the table, but who knows? They've got issues and aren't THAT young anymore. But the rest look pretty realistic. Its Coghlan. And just one year of him at that. I wouldn't expect too much of a return. I've seen things that teams look at him as a 4th OF and WAR be damned, its probably correct. A top 20 in the system arm and a young upside flier type-I'd be fine with that. A guy like Skaggs seems way outside that realm unless he's not recovered well from TJS and they just wanted to cut bait.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:01 pm

Man, I haven't taken this one out in a while...
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Re: Fowler

Postby SRQCub » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:07 pm

davell wrote:I think some of Gato's trades are realistic. I don't think Cole or Meyer would be on the table, but who knows? They've got issues and aren't THAT young anymore. But the rest look pretty realistic. Its Coghlan. And just one year of him at that. I wouldn't expect too much of a return. I've seen things that teams look at him as a 4th OF and WAR be damned, its probably correct. A top 20 in the system arm and a young upside flier type-I'd be fine with that. A guy like Skaggs seems way outside that realm unless he's not recovered well from TJS and they just wanted to cut bait.


Cole is a guy I'd take a shot at. 24 years old, appears ready to make the jump and stick in the bigs. I agree that I don't think it would be a straight up 1-for-1, but I'd at least ask.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:41 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:I almost posted this article yesterday, and then decided not to. I just really didn't even want to think about the idea of swapping Soler for Dexter Fowler. Ugh.

My biggest fear here is that we aren't going to get anything good for Soler, and then he will go hit 80 homers for some other team, and we will feel like the Pirates felt when they traded for Bobby Hill.


I won't feel that bad if Soler only goes on to hit 80 HR for another team. I'd feel pretty great, actually.

You are such a boob.
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Re: Fowler

Postby David » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:29 am

that he is but who doesn't love boobs?

#whitetrashdadjokes
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Re: Fowler

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:47 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:I think my ideal OF move at this stage is to trade Coghlan for the best minor league pitcher he'll bring and sign Austin Jackson.


Someone suggested Justus Sheffield a while back, maybe. I'd be into that and another arm like Plutko or Maronde. I'd be willing to sacrifice and take just one Triston McKenzie.

Some others that might be fun:

To the Astros for RHP Akeem Bostick, LHP Michael Freeman, and LHP Tommy Shirley
To the Orioles for LHPs Tanner Scott, and Chris Lee
To the Angels for LHPs Greg Mahle and Nate Smith
To the Nats for RHP AJ Cole
To the Marlins for LHP Justin Nicolino or LHP Chris Reed
To the Twins for RHP Alex Meyer or LHP Taylor Rogers and RHP Michael Cederoth

Over optimistic on some? Under?


I don't think there's any way you can get Triston McKenzie or Justus Sheffield for Coghlan (more McKenzie than Sheffield, as I think McKenzie' ceiling is higher). Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see a mid-market squad like Cleveland giving up that sort of upside for a stopgap bandaid. I mean, Sheffield's upside is arguably equal or better than say, Justin Steele or Carson Sands. It's hard to see the Cubs forking over one of those guys for a stopgap, and so for a mid-market team that is on the fringe of contention, I just find that harder to see.

Astros trade, at first glance, looks okay, and I think a fit might be there, as Coghlan could conceivably log some time at first until AJ Reed is ready.

Not sure I buy the Orioles fit, but the value looks okay. I guess they could go platoon for the OF, but the other issue is that Lee may be in the mix for the 5th starter job.

Angels trade looks okay.

Don't see the Nats fit, and don't see the Nats forking over AJ Cole for a stopgap measure of any sort. I think they are well aware that with Bryce Harper's mega-deal possibility in the near future, they will need to go with cheap young pitching. Cole is the closest, so I don't see them forking him over for a stopgap like Coghlan. That said, I'm not sold Cole is a starter long run, although I've always been high on him.

The fit with the Marlins doesn't seem to be there, but on the surface, value looks fine.

Haven't thought about fit for Twins, and really not sure what the value of Meyer is these days.
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Re: Fowler

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:22 am

McKenzie was tongue in cheek. There couldn't be less of a shot landing him for Coghlan. I think he's going to be one of the tippy top RHSP prospect in baseball within the next 2-3 years, and is my favorite RHSP prospect out there at the rookie and short season levels. I do think Sheffield is doable THO.

The Orioles' current COF situation is Reimold, Ryan Flaherty, Trumbo, and the Korean OF Kim. All but Kim are RHHs, the fit's pretty clear there.

The Nats' 4th OF is a no-offense entity in Taylor, Coghlan would give them some insurance for Werth's inevitable missed time. I'd also be into RHP Austin Voth.

5 players on the Marlins' depth chart are RH. Stanton and Ozuna have either missed time or sucked, Ichiro's 4something, their backup LF is an infielder by trade...
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Re: Fowler

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:27 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:McKenzie was tongue in cheek. There couldn't be less of a shot landing him for Coghlan. I think he's going to be one of the tippy top RHSP prospect in baseball within the next 2-3 years, and is my favorite RHSP prospect out there at the rookie and short season levels. I do think Sheffield is doable THO.

The Orioles' current COF situation is Reimold, Ryan Flaherty, Trumbo, and the Korean OF Kim. All but Kim are RHHs, the fit's pretty clear there.

The Nats' 4th OF is a no-offense entity in Taylor, Coghlan would give them some insurance for Werth's inevitable missed time. I'd also be into RHP Austin Voth.

5 players on the Marlins' depth chart are RH. Stanton and Ozuna have either missed time or sucked, Ichiro's 4something, their backup LF is an infielder by trade...


1. Marlins - Well .. Coghlan was a backup Marlins IF by trade who moved out there as well. Neither Dietrich or Coghlan are good defensive OF options, and I'm not sure Coghlan's bat is worth the move, but perhaps. Again, value wise, I thought it was fine.

2. Nationals - will likely put Clint Robinson and Tyler Moore in LF on occasion. Matt Den Dekker is still there at last check, and if they don't sign anyone else, he could backup Revere and buy some time for Taylor to go back to AAA.

3. Orioles - Ryan Flaherty isn't a RHH. I think the Orioles probably are in the market for another asset in the OF if the price is right (and rumors suggest they've been looking), but they've got two lefties and two righties on the list of guys you just named. One would think Joey Rickard has a decent chance of making the roster if he doesn't fall flat on his face in the spring. None of their options are ... well ... good (including Henry Urrutia and Dariel Alvarez) ..., but there are options. Also, Kim is likely slated for LF, and not sure how great the idea of Coghlan in RF at OPACY would be. I think they'll look around, though. Actually, I do wonder if they might double dip and go after say, Fowler and Gallardo, to lessen the impact of giving up a pick. Overall, I think they are better off not going that route at this juncture, but I could see something like that happen if they get the right contracts. Again, the other note I had was that Lee may actually be in the fight for the 5th starter job.

Edit:

- I like Voth. Nice mid-end of the rotation workhorse body type for a few years. That, value wise, makes sense to me, moreso than Cole, which I think is probably on the high end in a 1-1 deal.

- I just have a hard time seeing a young lefty with a live fastball, at age 19, coming off a good season in A ball, and projected as a mid-rotation arm getting dealt for Coghlan 1v1. An expanded trade where we give up something else? I can see that, but with the way prospects are protected ... I just don't think Coghlan is good enough to grab him 1v1. Who knows, maybe I'm way off here, but unless they specifically wanted a LHH, they could simply bring back Ryan Raburn as a veteran bat.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:36 am

David wrote:that he is but who doesn't love boobs?

#whitetrashdadjokes

Fun fact: I like boobs in odd numbers

Hash tag duh who doesn't
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Re: Fowler

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:06 pm

Those Nats reserve OFs stink, Coghlan would be an easy upgrade for them. Could even get creative and put Harper in CF, Revere on the bench, and Coghlan/Werth in the corners. The O's I could see not being a fit, they might be better off with a more defense oriented OF, probably LHH, since their COF D will probably be weak and Jones has no backup in CF without giving the job to a rookie. Flaherty shouldn't play much of a role in what they do out there - he is and probably will remain their primary backup in the IF.

Another team I'd throw on the pile would be the D'Backs. I'm partial Ryan Burr and Jared Miller in their system, but there's more arms than that - even guys like Allen Webster or Randall Delgado might still be interesting if they have minor league options to burn.
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Re: Fowler

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:56 pm

Robinson did well enough last year, offensively, and Moore, offensively, put up some numbers, uh, 2 years ago? For bench guys, they are okay. Coghlan would be a better starter, but comes down to If they are thinking that way.
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Re: Fowler

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:02 pm

toonsterwu wrote:Robinson did well enough last year, offensively, and Moore, offensively, put up some numbers, uh, 2 years ago? For bench guys, they are okay. Coghlan would be a better starter, but comes down to If they are thinking that way.


He did do well, but there's probably a reason he's got only 352 ML PAs entering his age 31 season. He's also got the role of Zimmermann's backup at 1B, possible platoon partner. They chased Heyward and Cespedes. It seems they're leaning towards a starting caliber OF, but as with all teams it will indeed come down to what they choose to do. I doubt anything gets done just because it would be a weird trade in a year these two teams are NL WS contenders, but crazier stuff has happened.

PERSONALLY, I like the Twins as a sleeper fit. Their OF is extremely young and unproven, probably the youngest OF in baseball. Allows them to keep Kepler in the minors for further seasoning....There's potential for a fit, they have some nice arms on the farm, they're a good org with a heavy emphasis on player development so you should be getting guys who have had a good pro experience so far...It seems like a fit but obviously yada yada.
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Re: Fowler

Postby Stu » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:35 pm

Apologies if this was posted before and I missed it, but... don't the Cubs have like 0 centerfielders on the roster? 1 if you count JH? Isn't that an issue?
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Re: Fowler

Postby cl smooth » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:38 pm

Stu wrote:Apologies if this was posted before and I missed it, but... don't the Cubs have like 0 centerfielders on the roster? 1 if you count JH? Isn't that an issue?


they are trying to working this stud into the cf mix:

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Re: Fowler

Postby Stu » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:44 pm

cl smooth wrote:
Stu wrote:Apologies if this was posted before and I missed it, but... don't the Cubs have like 0 centerfielders on the roster? 1 if you count JH? Isn't that an issue?


they are trying to working this stud into the cf mix:

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Perhaps their seeming lack of urgency has to do with their internal evaluations on Javy's ability to play CF but just seems strange for a team with WS aspirations to go into the season relying on an experiment in one of the most important defensive positions.
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Re: Fowler

Postby David » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:50 pm

Jason Heyward is a centerfielder who has been playing RF because some coach thought he was too big to play CF years ago.

As for a backup, aside from the Javy experiment, they've mentioned Sczcur. There's also plenty of time for them to sign someone else with a good glove there.
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