It turns out the real Yu Darvish was the friends we made in this thread

Lefty · February 5, 2018

It's not "siding." It's understanding someone else's position.
No. It’s years of propaganda. All fans should side with the workers.

I don't know that it's necessarily propaganda, as much as it is that sports fans have a feeling of "ownership" in their team. Players come and go, but your team is your team...so a fan's natural interest is in the team's benefit.

I agree that fans should side with the workers, but I completely understand why they don't generally.

Maybe only the dogmatic are responding to my post, but there few fully righteous and few utterly irredeemable. Like someone posted before, this is something between millionaires and billionaires. It's not exactly Joe Hill. I can root for Darvish to sign with the Cubs on a contract representing good value for the team. Am I missing something? Is anybody reading this hoping Eloy Jiminez doesn't succeed so we win that trade? For the record I would only wish failure on someone trying to harm me. Other people's success doesn't reach that level.

Banedon · February 5, 2018

No. It’s years of propaganda. All fans should side with the workers.

I don't know that it's necessarily propaganda, as much as it is that sports fans have a feeling of "ownership" in their team. Players come and go, but your team is your team...so a fan's natural interest is in the team's benefit.

I agree that fans should side with the workers, but I completely understand why they don't generally.

Maybe only the dogmatic are responding to my post, but there few fully righteous and few utterly irredeemable. Like someone posted before, this is something between millionaires and billionaires. It's not exactly Joe Hill. I can root for Darvish to sign with the Cubs on a contract representing good value for the team. Am I missing something? Is anybody reading this hoping Eloy Jiminez doesn't succeed so we win that trade? For the record I would only wish failure on someone trying to harm me. Other people's success doesn't reach that level.

The players only hit free agency at peak value once, maybe twice if they're lucky. This is their one opportunity to maximize their value. Yes, they make millions...but their careers are also over in their mid-30's, typically. Meanwhile, the owners can make money on these teams for generations.

Of course you want to get Darvish at a good value. We'll all be thrilled if we can get him at a lower price than expected. I can want the Cubs to get a bargain and also sympathize with a player trying to get the most of their free agent moment.

Sammy Sofa · February 5, 2018

"Good value for a team" right now is hugely hinged on shorting players via their decreasing share of the game's profits. Yeah, we are talking about millionaires vs. billionaires, but it's also still employees vs. owners, too. The flashy, appealing explanation is that this all because teams simply want to be able to spend for the FA bonanza next year, but ultimately that's just window dressing for a larger disparity that's been getting worse and festering for over a decade now. It would be one thing if this was an evolving system of spending that also reflected things like more teams actually spending money across the board instead of dumping quite so much into a relative few, or things like ticket prices holding steady or maybe even decreasing or being discounted, but none of this is happening. The bottom line is that this shift simply reflects the teams being able to pocket more money while generally paying players less (and charging us more).

Lefty · February 5, 2018

"Good value for a team" right now is hugely hinged on shorting players via their decreasing share of the game's profits. Yeah, we are talking about millionaires vs. billionaires, but it's also still employees vs. owners, too. The flashy, appealing explanation is that this all because teams simply want to be able to spend for the FA bonanza next year, but ultimately that's just window dressing for a larger disparity that's been getting worse and festering for over a decade now. It would be one thing if this was an evolving system of spending that also reflected things like more teams actually spending money across the board instead of dumping quite so much into a relative few, or things like ticket prices holding steady or maybe even decreasing or being discounted, but none of this is happening. The bottom line is that this shift simply reflects the teams being able to pocket more money while generally paying players less (and charging us more).

So don't go to the games.

I am sympathetic to players getting their payday, but how do you force the owners to pay?

Sammy Sofa · February 5, 2018

"Good value for a team" right now is hugely hinged on shorting players via their decreasing share of the game's profits. Yeah, we are talking about millionaires vs. billionaires, but it's also still employees vs. owners, too. The flashy, appealing explanation is that this all because teams simply want to be able to spend for the FA bonanza next year, but ultimately that's just window dressing for a larger disparity that's been getting worse and festering for over a decade now. It would be one thing if this was an evolving system of spending that also reflected things like more teams actually spending money across the board instead of dumping quite so much into a relative few, or things like ticket prices holding steady or maybe even decreasing or being discounted, but none of this is happening. The bottom line is that this shift simply reflects the teams being able to pocket more money while generally paying players less (and charging us more).

So don't go to the games.

The hell kind of response is this? Where I was saying that you or I could or should do anything?

I am sympathetic to players getting their payday, but how do you force the owners to pay?

WE don't do anything; the players try by calling it out, trying to renegotiate, and, if all else fails, going on strike.

UMFan83 · February 5, 2018

It's crazy....the rumors have basically just died for most FAs from what I can see...I feel like guys like Yu are basically making their stand and are refusing to cave any more even if this drags on for another month.

Bertz · February 5, 2018

It's crazy....the rumors have basically just died for most FAs from what I can see...I feel like guys like Yu are basically making their stand and are refusing to cave any more even if this drags on for another month.

It's probably the right play, especially for the pitchers. Yeah there's not a ton of demand right now, but there will be a couple of starters who go down with TJ when camp opens. If like Luis Severino went down, the Yankees would blow past the tax to sign Arrieta or Darvish within a few hours.

champaignchris · February 5, 2018

I think there's a broader picture of a system in which good teams don't need to spend a ton on free agents (because they're already good) and bad teams are punished for doing so in draft picks and international signing restrictions. Bad teams have to choose between signing difference making free agents or drafting and signing amateurs, and recent history has shown the latter course to be the more effective long term in terms of wins and losses.

Front offices aren't colluding. They're just making the best decisions they can based on the system as it exists. There are perverse incentives all over the place that make players over 29 who aren't the most elite of the elite have lower value than they probably should. All of these issues existed before the last CBA expired and look to have been exacerbated with the new CBA.

The weird thing to me is not that the players are complaining. It's that the players completely rolled over on the new CBA without fighting on some of the very issues that are occurring right now. The time for the players to work on these things was 18 months ago. I'm not sure what the players want the owners to do about it now, unless they think they can get them to renegotiate the terms of the CBA with 4 years left on the one they just agreed to. I think their better bet is to fire Tony Clark and his team, live with the CBA for four years, and then get ready for a fight in 2021 or 2022.

CubinNY · February 5, 2018

I think there's a broader picture of a system in which good teams don't need to spend a ton on free agents (because they're already good) and bad teams are punished for doing so in draft picks and international signing restrictions. Bad teams have to choose between signing difference making free agents or drafting and signing amateurs, and recent history has shown the latter course to be the more effective long term in terms of wins and losses.

Front offices aren't colluding. They're just making the best decisions they can based on the system as it exists. There are perverse incentives all over the place that make players over 29 who aren't the most elite of the elite have lower value than they probably should. All of these issues existed before the last CBA expired and look to have been exacerbated with the new CBA.

The weird thing to me is not that the players are complaining. It's that the players completely rolled over on the new CBA without fighting on some of the very issues that are occurring right now. The time for the players to work on these things was 18 months ago. I'm not sure what the players want the owners to do about it now, unless they think they can get them to renegotiate the terms of the CBA with 4 years left on the one they just agreed to. I think their better bet is to fire Tony Clark and his team, live with the CBA for four years, and then get ready for a fight in 2021 or 2022.

If the system allows them to do this, that’s collusion. What we don’t know is if the owners have given hard figures to the GMs or if the GMs have all just decided they’re not worth what they are asking. This inaction appears to be systemic. We won’t know unless there’s a law suit.

champaignchris · February 5, 2018

The owners can all get together and decide they want to make a bargain with the players in the CBA that will reduce the amount the players will get paid. If players agree and sign off on the CBA, that's not collusion. That's just bargaining. The owners' side got together and made an offer to the players that the players accepted.

If the owners are doing something outside of what's allowed in the CBA - as in 1987, when they came to an additional secret agreement among themselves that they wouldn't make offers to other teams' free agents - that's collusion. In this case, it looks to me like the owners are just playing within the rules. As shitty, one-sided, and slanted towards the owners as they may be.

I'm not against the players getting theirs. I'm just amazed that none of them (or more precisely, their agents) saw this coming with the new CBA. They're doing the functional equivalent of agreeing to work for $8.00 an hour and then coming back to the boss a few days later and saying, "How dare you only pay me $8.00 an hour!"

Edited February 5, 2018 by champaignchris

champaignchris · February 5, 2018

quoted when I meant to edit. oops.

17 Seconds · February 6, 2018

that highheat guy (who previously said that the darvish thing was supposed to over by today) showed up earlier and said he would come back later that night with some news, and that people should spread the word. it ended up being a whole bunch of nothing. even some of the people on that board were perturbed.

also, here is some odd stuff he said about the cubs

Let's go over a few things here. First off, were not Cub fans. That means we don't treat other's like dung and rip on our own fans. We don't call out our player's or coaches when their losing but act like were the greatest fans when we are winning. That's not what Brewer fans are, that's Cubs fans. We have a player who did roids and got caught. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him. In return, he wanted nothing else but to stay in Milwaukee, even when he knew we were in rebuild mode. Because he knew the fans here are special and don't sell out like fans from other teams. Were not dirtbags. Dirtbags are Cubs fans. Listen to 670 the score if you don't believe me. Brewer fans are some of the most respected fans in all of Baseball.

but i'm giving him the attention he wants, so really the joke's on me

Bryants Disco Ball · February 6, 2018

that highheat guy (who previously said that the darvish thing was supposed to over by today) showed up earlier and said he would come back later that night with some news, and that people should spread the word. it ended up being a whole bunch of nothing. even some of the people on that board were perturbed.

also, here is some odd stuff he said about the cubs

Let's go over a few things here. First off, were not Cub fans. That means we don't treat other's like dung and rip on our own fans. We don't call out our player's or coaches when their losing but act like were the greatest fans when we are winning. That's not what Brewer fans are, that's Cubs fans. We have a player who did roids and got caught. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him. In return, he wanted nothing else but to stay in Milwaukee, even when he knew we were in rebuild mode. Because he knew the fans here are special and don't sell out like fans from other teams. Were not dirtbags. Dirtbags are Cubs fans. Listen to 670 the score if you don't believe me. Brewer fans are some of the most respected fans in all of Baseball.

but i'm giving him the attention he wants, so really the joke's on me

He clearly doesn’t follow Kato.

Clem Fandango · February 6, 2018

We have a player who did roids and got caught and in the process slandered the employee who delivered the drug test, called him a liar and told baseball he conspired against him because he might have been an anti-semitic Cubs fan and reportedly had a friend leak his name to the public so we, as fans, could ridicule him for being a huge horsefeathers up. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him.

Fixed

ConstableRabbit · February 6, 2018

that highheat guy (who previously said that the darvish thing was supposed to over by today) showed up earlier and said he would come back later that night with some news, and that people should spread the word. it ended up being a whole bunch of nothing. even some of the people on that board were perturbed.

also, here is some odd stuff he said about the cubs

Let's go over a few things here. First off, were not Cub fans. That means we don't treat other's like dung and rip on our own fans. We don't call out our player's or coaches when their losing but act like were the greatest fans when we are winning. That's not what Brewer fans are, that's Cubs fans. We have a player who did roids and got caught. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him. In return, he wanted nothing else but to stay in Milwaukee, even when he knew we were in rebuild mode. Because he knew the fans here are special and don't sell out like fans from other teams. Were not dirtbags. Dirtbags are Cubs fans. Listen to 670 the score if you don't believe me. Brewer fans are some of the most respected fans in all of Baseball.

but i'm giving him the attention he wants, so really the joke's on me

SOTMRFIB

Cubswin11 · February 6, 2018

We have a player who did roids and got caught and in the process slandered the employee who delivered the drug test, called him a liar and told baseball he conspired against him because he might have been an anti-semitic Cubs fan and reportedly had a friend leak his name to the public so we, as fans, could ridicule him for being a huge horsefeathers up. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him.

Fixed

*He also threw Aaron Rodgers under the bus and their whole friendship and business partnership (they had some restaurants and other things they were in together) were effectively ended by Braun being a lying POS and and having Rodgers publicly defend him on the basis the test was wrong and Braun was a stand up dude.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Cubswin11

Cubswin11 · February 6, 2018

His tidbit on a Darvish was a little interesting and kinda backs up all our theories he’s holding a ton of moves up.

Regardless of the current market conditions I don’t get how Darvish or his agent ever thought he was going to get some sort of record deal.

Darvish: There is speculation by the Brewer's FO and other FO's that the agents are playing their own collusion game with Darvish. In that Darvish is setting the price for at least the rest of the pitching. They don't want Darvish to sign for anything less than a record amount. A low amount in signing could literally have agents and agencies lose literally hundreds of millions across the board.

The Brewer's feel that Darvish will sign with someone else, but they are actively after him. However, teams are aware of the price setting by Darvish and realize it could affect their secondary FA targets.

17 Seconds · February 6, 2018

His tidbit on a Darvish was a little interesting and kinda backs up all our theories he’s holding a ton of moves up.

Regardless of the current market conditions I don’t get how Darvish or his agent ever thought he was going to get some record deal.

Darvish: There is speculation by the Brewer's FO and other FO's that the agents are playing their own collusion game with Darvish. In that Darvish is setting the price for at least the rest of the pitching. They don't want Darvish to sign for anything less than a record amount. A low amount in signing could literally have agents and agencies lose literally hundreds of millions across the board.

The Brewer's feel that Darvish will sign with someone else, but they are actively after him. However, teams are aware of the price setting by Darvish and realize it could affect their secondary FA targets.

it backs up all the theories, or it piles on all the theories?

Cubswin11 · February 6, 2018

His tidbit on a Darvish was a little interesting and kinda backs up all our theories he’s holding a ton of moves up.

Regardless of the current market conditions I don’t get how Darvish or his agent ever thought he was going to get some record deal.

Darvish: There is speculation by the Brewer's FO and other FO's that the agents are playing their own collusion game with Darvish. In that Darvish is setting the price for at least the rest of the pitching. They don't want Darvish to sign for anything less than a record amount. A low amount in signing could literally have agents and agencies lose literally hundreds of millions across the board.

The Brewer's feel that Darvish will sign with someone else, but they are actively after him. However, teams are aware of the price setting by Darvish and realize it could affect their secondary FA targets.

it backs up all the theories, or it piles on all the theories?

Both? It backs it up because the source is someone in an actual MLB FO and isn’t some internet message board posters but also piles on to the theory we all kinda figured anyways.

dfnowak · February 6, 2018

that highheat guy (who previously said that the darvish thing was supposed to over by today) showed up earlier and said he would come back later that night with some news, and that people should spread the word. it ended up being a whole bunch of nothing. even some of the people on that board were perturbed.

also, here is some odd stuff he said about the cubs

Let's go over a few things here. First off, were not Cub fans. That means we don't treat other's like dung and rip on our own fans. We don't call out our player's or coaches when their losing but act like were the greatest fans when we are winning. That's not what Brewer fans are, that's Cubs fans. We have a player who did roids and got caught. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him. In return, he wanted nothing else but to stay in Milwaukee, even when he knew we were in rebuild mode. Because he knew the fans here are special and don't sell out like fans from other teams. Were not dirtbags. Dirtbags are Cubs fans. Listen to 670 the score if you don't believe me. Brewer fans are some of the most respected fans in all of Baseball.

but i'm giving him the attention he wants, so really the joke's on me

I really hate when people act like their fan base is holier than thou

Cubswin11 · February 6, 2018

that highheat guy (who previously said that the darvish thing was supposed to over by today) showed up earlier and said he would come back later that night with some news, and that people should spread the word. it ended up being a whole bunch of nothing. even some of the people on that board were perturbed.

also, here is some odd stuff he said about the cubs

Let's go over a few things here. First off, were not Cub fans. That means we don't treat other's like dung and rip on our own fans. We don't call out our player's or coaches when their losing but act like were the greatest fans when we are winning. That's not what Brewer fans are, that's Cubs fans. We have a player who did roids and got caught. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him. In return, he wanted nothing else but to stay in Milwaukee, even when he knew we were in rebuild mode. Because he knew the fans here are special and don't sell out like fans from other teams. Were not dirtbags. Dirtbags are Cubs fans. Listen to 670 the score if you don't believe me. Brewer fans are some of the most respected fans in all of Baseball.

but i'm giving him the attention he wants, so really the joke's on me
I really hate when people act like their fan base is holier than thou

Have to remember most Brewer fans are Packer fans and Packer fans are basically Cardinal fans in their sanctimony, BFIB, holier than thou [expletive].

Bluescale · February 6, 2018

Both? It backs it up because the source is someone in an actual MLB FO and isn’t some internet message board posters but also piles on to the theory we all kinda figured anyways.

That's if you believe there is a source. His posts stink of some dude reading the tea leaves and calling them a source. He reiterates the rumors that are out there and adds color.I'd say it's 50/50 whether the color is from a real source, or his furry friend Harvey.

Cubswin11 · February 6, 2018

Both? It backs it up because the source is someone in an actual MLB FO and isn’t some internet message board posters but also piles on to the theory we all kinda figured anyways.

That's if you believe there is a source. His posts stink of some dude reading the tea leaves and calling them a source. He reiterates the rumors that are out there and adds color.I'd say it's 50/50 whether the color is from a real source, or his furry friend Harvey.

Maybe, but I think this guy is pretty legit. He's called things quite accurately and in the last week or 2 when he said things about the Brewers being after a pitcher the national media guys had tweets/articles about it within a day or 2.

17 Seconds · February 6, 2018

he's been wrong as much as he's been right. yes he has heard real things from someone, but that doesnt mean it's someone in a front office, or even a person who gets consistent information about the stuff he claims. most of what he says sounds like a guy talking out of his ass for attention.

Bull · February 6, 2018

His tidbit on a Darvish was a little interesting and kinda backs up all our theories he’s holding a ton of moves up.

Regardless of the current market conditions I don’t get how Darvish or his agent ever thought he was going to get some record deal.

Darvish: There is speculation by the Brewer's FO and other FO's that the agents are playing their own collusion game with Darvish. In that Darvish is setting the price for at least the rest of the pitching. They don't want Darvish to sign for anything less than a record amount. A low amount in signing could literally have agents and agencies lose literally hundreds of millions across the board.

The Brewer's feel that Darvish will sign with someone else, but they are actively after him. However, teams are aware of the price setting by Darvish and realize it could affect their secondary FA targets.

it backs up all the theories, or it piles on all the theories?

One way to check this out is to see who has signed and who their agents are.

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It turns out the real Yu Darvish was the friends we made in this thread

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