Manny Machado Traded to the Dodgers

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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue May 08, 2018 8:22 pm

champaignchris wrote:I have yet to hear a compelling reason why a team in the Cubs’ position (young, primed to compete for the next 4+ years) would trade 3 1/2 years of a 3 WAR a year player for 1/2 a year of a 5.5 WAR a year player that plays the exact same position. Why add a tiny bit to your chances this year while subtracting quite a bit from your chances the next three when you should be competitive in each of those three?

The only way that would make sense is if they think 24-year-old Addison Russell is irretrievably toast. Which would be a bizarre conclusion. Even with the hitting struggles, he’s on a 3.0 bWAR pace.

Yeah it makes no sense which is why I think any “reports” on Russell being involved are completely fabricated by bum, know nothing writers like Gordo.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Tue May 08, 2018 8:33 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I'm down on Russell but I'm not trading him for a couple months of Machado.

On a related note, you Machado over Harper heathens need to repent.

Oh yeah I’m all in on Bryce. Just can see how Machado could make a little more sense, Bryce is the better (potentially much better) player and adding the best talent should win out over whatever they could get for Russell to add Machado over signing just Bryce.



I think if you're dropping hundreds of millions on a big acquisition, you don't let players like Russell(assuming he continues to disappoint), Almora, Happ, and Heyward dictate your target. You make the complementary pieces work once you have your man.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby shnsajax » Tue May 08, 2018 8:33 pm

I’ve heard nothing, but have there been any locker room issues since Russell cheated on his wife and got divorced? All of the wives seem to be pretty close. Just random speculation.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue May 08, 2018 8:36 pm

shnsajax wrote:I’ve heard nothing, but have there been any locker room issues since Russell cheated on his wife and got divorced? All of the wives seem to be pretty close. Just random speculation.

I’ve seen nothing but players and coaches saying good things about him pretty much since he’s been up in terms of locker room things. Maybe it’s just putting up a front but I think he’s plenty liked and not a deterrent in the locker room.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Duke Silver » Tue May 08, 2018 8:43 pm

As long as none of the new Cub Babies come out of the womb throwing bats into the crowd, I don't think his teammates are going to care very much.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby shnsajax » Tue May 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
shnsajax wrote:I’ve heard nothing, but have there been any locker room issues since Russell cheated on his wife and got divorced? All of the wives seem to be pretty close. Just random speculation.

I’ve seen nothing but players and coaches saying good things about him pretty much since he’s been up in terms of locker room things. Maybe it’s just putting up a front but I think he’s plenty liked and not a deterrent in the locker room.


He seems so quiet in general that I wouldn’t think anything of it, but all I could think of.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby shnsajax » Tue May 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
shnsajax wrote:I’ve heard nothing, but have there been any locker room issues since Russell cheated on his wife and got divorced? All of the wives seem to be pretty close. Just random speculation.

I’ve seen nothing but players and coaches saying good things about him pretty much since he’s been up in terms of locker room things. Maybe it’s just putting up a front but I think he’s plenty liked and not a deterrent in the locker room.


He seems so quiet in general that I wouldn’t think anything of it, but all I could think of.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue May 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I'm down on Russell but I'm not trading him for a couple months of Machado.

On a related note, you Machado over Harper heathens need to repent.



This. Baez can always man SS and we can use one of our other 7 second basemen at 2nd. And Harper >>>>>>>>>>Heyward while Machado >\_ Russell
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue May 08, 2018 8:58 pm

And I assume we wouldn’t get both
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby davell » Tue May 08, 2018 11:19 pm

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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Brian » Wed May 09, 2018 12:28 am

did not realize he's only 3 months older than Harper.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Wed May 09, 2018 1:03 am

Cubs were gonna take Fried in 12 and Gray in 13 but needed the inside track to Manny and Harper for 19 so they settled on Al and KB
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Tryptamine » Wed May 09, 2018 1:39 am

Montgomery+Happ is about the absolute max I could stomach and to do that I'd need to feel pretty damn confident I could re-sign Manny.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Sammys Boombox » Wed May 09, 2018 2:11 am

I give our front office the benefit of the doubt on just about everything, but if they traded Russell for Machado I’d be pretty upset. I don’t think there is any chance this happens.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby d_money » Wed May 09, 2018 11:56 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:For the record, however, I might be leaning toward the sign Machado instead of Harper bandwagon.

I think it certainly should be seriously considered. Bryce is the better player but Machado might be a better fit depending upon on how Russell finishes the year along with the other outfielders. Machado let’s you trade Russell for something useful presumably. Harper could force you to sell a guy off for the sake of it and not getting much back. Or say horsefeathers it and sign Machado, trade Russell+ pieces to dump Heywards salary (Russell, Monty and Heyward to someone?) and also sign Bryce.

Sign Harper, trade Schwarber + Psycho Killer for Stroman. Ahhh....
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Backtobanks » Wed May 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Sammys Boombox wrote:I give our front office the benefit of the doubt on just about everything, but if they traded Russell for Machado I’d be pretty upset. I don’t think there is any chance this happens.


It could happen, but I think it would need to be expanded to include another useful player coming to the Cubs.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby entbird79 » Wed May 09, 2018 12:57 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
Sammys Boombox wrote:I give our front office the benefit of the doubt on just about everything, but if they traded Russell for Machado I’d be pretty upset. I don’t think there is any chance this happens.


It could happen, but I think it would need to be expanded to include another useful player coming to the Cubs.


Possibly getting a 3rd team involved.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby KingCubsFan » Wed May 09, 2018 2:13 pm

Since 2015, Russell is 12th among SS in WAR. Machado appears to be well on his way to another 6 WAR season this year. The unique thing about the Cubs is that they also have the 13th ranked SS in Baez. So even if Machado doesn't resign, you've got a replacement in Baez and the ability to insert another starting caliber MIF in Happ. However, given the Cubs' recruiting abilities, I think the ability to show Machado the organization over half a season holds some real value in the ability to resign him as a free agent. So the front office really has to evaluate whether Addison Russell is worth a 3 WAR upgrade at SS this season + an enhanced ability to sign Machado in the offseason. I don't think that's worth dismissing outright.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed May 09, 2018 2:16 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:Since 2015, Russell is 12th among SS in WAR. Machado appears to be well on his way to another 6 WAR season this year. The unique thing about the Cubs is that they also have the 13th ranked SS in Baez. So even if Machado doesn't resign, you've got a replacement in Baez and the ability to insert another starting caliber MIF in Happ. However, given the Cubs' recruiting abilities,I think the ability to show Machado the organization over half a season holds some real value in the ability to resign him as a free agent. So the front office really has to evaluate whether Addison Russell is worth a 3 WAR upgrade at SS this season + an enhanced ability to sign Machado in the offseason. I don't think that's worth dismissing outright.


yeah, machado is going to go through the free agent process no matter what, but man, imagine going from an organization like horsefeathering baltimore to one like the cubs.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed May 09, 2018 2:30 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:Since 2015, Russell is 12th among SS in WAR. Machado appears to be well on his way to another 6 WAR season this year. The unique thing about the Cubs is that they also have the 13th ranked SS in Baez. So even if Machado doesn't resign, you've got a replacement in Baez and the ability to insert another starting caliber MIF in Happ. However, given the Cubs' recruiting abilities, I think the ability to show Machado the organization over half a season holds some real value in the ability to resign him as a free agent. So the front office really has to evaluate whether Addison Russell is worth a 3 WAR upgrade at SS this season + an enhanced ability to sign Machado in the offseason. I don't think that's worth dismissing outright.


I think Theo is very good at selling players, but I don't think the Cubs gain a material advantage by having Machado be there first hand for a couple months. See Darvish/Dodgers, Heyward/Cardinals, etc.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby biittner77 » Wed May 09, 2018 3:01 pm

Trading for Machado keeps him away from getting traded to a competitor that needs him more. Machado offers a lot of positional flexibility since he can also play 3rd, allowing Bryant to play OF or have a day off without being replaced by Seal Boy.

It's wrong to dismiss this idea out of hand but it will depend a lot on what other players are involved. I don't have a lot of respect for the Orioles brain trust. They are genuinely awful right now and their fan base has always had delusions of relevance. I can't see this trade happening until closer to the deadline unless Theo blows them away with a package that would likely be more than most of us would be willing to see the Cubs pay.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed May 09, 2018 3:11 pm

biittner77 wrote:Trading for Machado keeps him away from getting traded to a competitor that needs him more. Machado offers a lot of positional flexibility since he can also play 3rd, allowing Bryant to play OF or have a day off without being replaced by Seal Boy.


Let's focus on this for a second. Machado is a third baseman, he has 80 games at SS in MLB with a -3 UZR, he's on a -8 pace so far this year. If you want to try to stuff him at SS he probably isn't going to sink you, but I think there's a misconception about what he's actually good at defensively. Nolan Arenado makes some sweet plays to his right at the hot corner too, doesn't make him a good MLB SS. The last 3 years he's only about a +6 third baseman too, which not so coincidentally matches up to his offensive uptick(e.g. filling out/physical maturity).

Also, Machado is only a small upgrade over TLS with the bat against RHP, but that's a more minor point. Especially since Zobrist and Happ also exist so you're really talking about the best of the 3 for a given matchup.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Banedon » Wed May 09, 2018 3:17 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
biittner77 wrote:Trading for Machado keeps him away from getting traded to a competitor that needs him more. Machado offers a lot of positional flexibility since he can also play 3rd, allowing Bryant to play OF or have a day off without being replaced by Seal Boy.


Let's focus on this for a second. Machado is a third baseman, he has 80 games at SS in MLB with a -3 UZR, he's on a -8 pace so far this year. If you want to try to stuff him at SS he probably isn't going to sink you, but I think there's a misconception about what he's actually good at defensively. Nolan Arenado makes some sweet plays to his right at the hot corner too, doesn't make him a good MLB SS. The last 3 years he's only about a +6 third baseman too, which not so coincidentally matches up to his offensive uptick(e.g. filling out/physical maturity).

Also, Machado is only a small upgrade over TLS with the bat against RHP, but that's a more minor point. Especially since Zobrist and Happ also exist so you're really talking about the best of the 3 for a given matchup.


Guessing this is probably a bad idea....

But what about sticking him at 2B and putting Javy at SS? I realize he's never played there in the majors, but he's played SS. Surely he could play 2B competently?
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed May 09, 2018 3:21 pm

Banedon wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
biittner77 wrote:Trading for Machado keeps him away from getting traded to a competitor that needs him more. Machado offers a lot of positional flexibility since he can also play 3rd, allowing Bryant to play OF or have a day off without being replaced by Seal Boy.


Let's focus on this for a second. Machado is a third baseman, he has 80 games at SS in MLB with a -3 UZR, he's on a -8 pace so far this year. If you want to try to stuff him at SS he probably isn't going to sink you, but I think there's a misconception about what he's actually good at defensively. Nolan Arenado makes some sweet plays to his right at the hot corner too, doesn't make him a good MLB SS. The last 3 years he's only about a +6 third baseman too, which not so coincidentally matches up to his offensive uptick(e.g. filling out/physical maturity).

Also, Machado is only a small upgrade over TLS with the bat against RHP, but that's a more minor point. Especially since Zobrist and Happ also exist so you're really talking about the best of the 3 for a given matchup.


Guessing this is probably a bad idea....

But what about sticking him at 2B and putting Javy at SS? I realize he's never played there in the majors, but he's played SS. Surely he could play 2B competently?


If he's +3-5 at 3B and -3-5 at SS, it would stand to reason he'd probably be averagish at 2B for now. At that point you've basically paid all that money for Brian Dozier though.
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Re: Orioles are shopping Machado and the Cubs are interested per Gordo

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed May 09, 2018 3:24 pm

Every cub sucks in his first month with the team, and the horsefeathers media/fans pounce, destroying all goodwill between player and team/city. Theo thrives on selling the theory of how life with the Cubs will be, not with how it will actually go. Trading for Machado will destroy any chance of selling him on the myth.
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