General Chit-Chat thread

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 3919
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 3737
x 1594

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm

Its going to boost his portfolio no matter what he charges. If he is better quality than larger-outfit alternatives, he should just mildly undercut their prices.

Don't sell yourself short, especially if you need the funds to hire help. Just be sure to price all of that out in the bid to show that you have a plan to meet their deadlines and quality expectations.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
The Logan
Superstar
Posts: 15173
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am
Location: Lakeview
x 5454
x 1819

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby The Logan » Fri May 17, 2019 4:56 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Is there a good chance that by "undercutting" what you're worth it could set you up for other lucrative future gigs by boosting your portfolio?


That is the trap of the freelancer, unfortunately. When starting out, you need to work cheap to get the gigs, because without the gigs in your portfolio you can't get more work, but you can't get the good work if you don't have the experience.

I have the experience, but a lot of that experience is tied into other company's portfolios who hired me for their production business. I know my skills are worth the same as a production company with 30 years of reputation behind their name, but I don't have those 30 years and I don't have the reputation here in Chicago. I've done the cheap work already. I'd argue I'm still doing a lot of cheap work. I know I'm worth the standard rates now, I just question whether outsiders view me as that.

Cubswin11 wrote:First off congrats, that sounds like a cool opportunity.

Do you advertise rates/pricing on your site at all that they’d know what they’re getting in to?

If not and it’s a blind quote/bid and you really want the job but want to price to reflect your talent/work required maybe say something like “normally this is a 25K job and that’s what I’d charge but because it’s a great opportunity I’d be willing to take 5K off and charge 20K”??? Make them think you’re working with them and giving them a deal but you’re still getting close to what you want?


I don't advertise rates, this was a blind quote. They said they got my information as a reference form the Conrad Hotel where they're staying and I have no clue if I know anyone who works there or if they just found me online after doing some research on some production websites where I might have a portfolio. SO however they found me I'm thankful.

Dropping the line of "Normally this costs X but I'll charge Y" isn't a bad idea, but I'd need to word it delicately.
0 x
Image

User avatar
The Logan
Superstar
Posts: 15173
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am
Location: Lakeview
x 5454
x 1819

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby The Logan » Fri May 17, 2019 4:56 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Its going to boost his portfolio no matter what he charges. If he is better quality than larger-outfit alternatives, he should just mildly undercut their prices.

Don't sell yourself short, especially if you need the funds to hire help. Just be sure to price all of that out in the bid to show that you have a plan to meet their deadlines and quality expectations.


This is kind of what I'm aiming towards.
0 x
Image

User avatar
The Logan
Superstar
Posts: 15173
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am
Location: Lakeview
x 5454
x 1819

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby The Logan » Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

CP_414 wrote:It depends on how well you can demonstrate that your stuff has more value than the people you are competing with. If it’s a big company with a good budget, price might not be the top factor in their decision. If you feel confident that you can show your product is superior, charge a premium. If you think they are buying on price, or that their preference is to go with a larger company then you might want to go low to get the deal.

Is it inappropriate to ask them if they have a budget and get details about what they value in terms of product/experience that you can include in the proposal?


Well, I freelance for the larger production houses. Like if I quoted them $15K and they decided to go with the company I freelance for (in this hypothetical situation) for $25K, they'd just hire me out freelance at their cheap ass $25/hr rate and I'd wind up doing all the work anyways and I'd walk away with like maybe $1,000-$1,200 instead of $15K. They'll get the exact same quality because I'd be doing it either way. So my work is on par with this reputable company because their work IS my work.

Asking for a budget is tricky. A lot of people I've talked to about this say they hate getting asked that because the budget is none of their business and they also don't know what these costs are and they just want a quote so they know what to expect. That being said, I don't intend to ask for a budget, I'm just gonna quote.

This company is huge. It's a natural gas company with refineries all over the world, and the guy who reached out to me works for a marketing firm that works for that gas comp[any and they have offices in like London, Brussels, and Berlin. Both of these companies, regardless of who is footing the bill, have big dollars. A $20K quote is probably small potatoes, so that makes me think "Oh, well let's quote that then" but then I think "Well if they have that kind of money, why did they reach out to a solo freelancer? Are they looking for a deal?"

It's a tricky situation
0 x
Image

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 3919
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 3737
x 1594

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri May 17, 2019 5:16 pm

The Logan wrote:
CP_414 wrote:It depends on how well you can demonstrate that your stuff has more value than the people you are competing with. If it’s a big company with a good budget, price might not be the top factor in their decision. If you feel confident that you can show your product is superior, charge a premium. If you think they are buying on price, or that their preference is to go with a larger company then you might want to go low to get the deal.

Is it inappropriate to ask them if they have a budget and get details about what they value in terms of product/experience that you can include in the proposal?


Well, I freelance for the larger production houses. Like if I quoted them $15K and they decided to go with the company I freelance for (in this hypothetical situation) for $25K, they'd just hire me out freelance at their cheap ass $25/hr rate and I'd wind up doing all the work anyways and I'd walk away with like maybe $1,000-$1,200 instead of $15K. They'll get the exact same quality because I'd be doing it either way. So my work is on par with this reputable company because their work IS my work.

Asking for a budget is tricky. A lot of people I've talked to about this say they hate getting asked that because the budget is none of their business and they also don't know what these costs are and they just want a quote so they know what to expect. That being said, I don't intend to ask for a budget, I'm just gonna quote.

This company is huge. It's a natural gas company with refineries all over the world, and the guy who reached out to me works for a marketing firm that works for that gas comp[any and they have offices in like London, Brussels, and Berlin. Both of these companies, regardless of who is footing the bill, have big dollars. A $20K quote is probably small potatoes, so that makes me think "Oh, well let's quote that then" but then I think "Well if they have that kind of money, why did they reach out to a solo freelancer? Are they looking for a deal?"

It's a tricky situation

Oh man. Any energy company that has international offices probably thinks about "deals" differently than you or I. I'd put my prices pretty damn close to the big boys in your area.
1 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
WrigleyField 22
Superstar
Posts: 12539
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:48 pm
Location: hnderstabxcwhsg
x 1780
x 860

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:26 pm

Well you definitely have to figure out what you want your rate to be and stick with it because it sounds like there is pretty wide pricing in the market.

Are you basing your quotes solely off what you know a full production company charges or have you been able to network with other freelancers on this sort of thing?

Just at a high level, there is market rate and your cost. Your cost is obviously pretty subjective as you probably have little overhead, but you should take the time to try and Calc out all your overheads and then plot out an hourly wage you'd need to charge for all your projects you can realistically work in a year and still put out quality product (factoring in of course not just what you'd earn as salary as a waged employee, but insurance and all that other stuff). That's your floor from now on. To the extent you can accurately guage market rate, that's your max, but since there is a large market range and that uncertainty, you have that cost floor to fall back on when you feel you need a conservative bid when you really want a deal.

That's all knowing nothing about your industry, but that's how I'd approach it.
1 x
Image

User avatar
weis21
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 9062
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:45 am
Location: ECU
x 6010
x 1196

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby weis21 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:38 pm

well now i'm just dying to know how this turns out.

while i have an undergraduate degree in media production, i graduated in 2005 and unfortunately only got introduced to digital production very late in my undergraduate years. i shortly thereafter went to grad school and haven't picked up a camera that wasn't on my phone since (though, i specialized more in editing and less in filming anyway).

all that is to say i have no expertise or informed opinion more than anyone. but, i think as others have said - take what the "big guys" would charge and cut ~5K - sounds reasonable and safe even if it's not TOTALLY fair. I'd rather secure a big payday and risk a few thousand than to go in too heavy and risk the entire deal.

i do have a few friends that work in the industry and i'd be happy to pass along this scenario if you would like. but, i don't know how many opinions you are wanting.
1 x

User avatar
Derwood
Stall Monitor
Posts: 69183
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:44 pm
Location: 375 Miles East of Wrigley
x 1137
x 2306

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby Derwood » Fri May 17, 2019 6:02 pm

This becomes that question of "what am I worth, and am I willing to walk away from this job opportunity if they offer less?"
1 x

User avatar
The Logan
Superstar
Posts: 15173
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am
Location: Lakeview
x 5454
x 1819

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby The Logan » Fri May 17, 2019 6:27 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:Well you definitely have to figure out what you want your rate to be and stick with it because it sounds like there is pretty wide pricing in the market.

Are you basing your quotes solely off what you know a full production company charges or have you been able to network with other freelancers on this sort of thing?

Just at a high level, there is market rate and your cost. Your cost is obviously pretty subjective as you probably have little overhead, but you should take the time to try and Calc out all your overheads and then plot out an hourly wage you'd need to charge for all your projects you can realistically work in a year and still put out quality product (factoring in of course not just what you'd earn as salary as a waged employee, but insurance and all that other stuff). That's your floor from now on. To the extent you can accurately guage market rate, that's your max, but since there is a large market range and that uncertainty, you have that cost floor to fall back on when you feel you need a conservative bid when you really want a deal.

That's all knowing nothing about your industry, but that's how I'd approach it.


I've worked out how many hours this would be shooting and how many more hours it would be editing and I'm pricing my personal hours based on a rate that I've been told I should be charging. When I started to freelance and handed out quotes for my hourly rate I was basing it off of Chicago based video production salaries which comes out to around $25/hr on average. It wasn't until later than several freelancers to,d me I need to be charging twice, if not three times as much, because freelancing is not a full-time job and I need to take care of my own personal costs a full-time job would cover like insurance and what not.

So I still freelance for this dude at $25/hr because he continually gives me work, but anyone else I'm not quoting anywhere from $50-$75/hr which I'd be quoting this company on the high end of that for my personal time. There's going to be a good 50-60 hours of work here between shooting and editing just for me alone.

FWIW, the guy I freelance for, when I"m working at $25/hr, he's quoting the client $125/hr. So I'm sitting here doing all the work for $25/hr and he's pocketing $100/hr. It upsets me, but at the same time, it's money I need and wouldn't get otherwise. That's the trap. This job would allow me to start marketing myself as a business so I could start making the type of money this other dude is making and build some legitimacy behind my name and my product.
0 x
Image

User avatar
minnesotacubsfan
Superstar
Posts: 17046
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: da Salish Sea
x 1223
x 678

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri May 17, 2019 6:35 pm

The Logan wrote:I've been freelancing as a videographer for over a year now and I've been struggling to find a full-time job in my field because the competition is so stiff here in Chicago, and my freelance stuff has not been super lucrative, just enough to scrape by.

Yesterday I received an email through my personal website from someone who needed an event videographer for 3 1/2 days. No big deal, a great opportunity but I figured it'd be like a $800-$1,200 gig, depending on how long the days were, for me and maybe one other person.

Well, turns out it's video, photography, and video editing of 6 proper videos and 6 extra videos their employees will shoot durin the event (those wil be easy to edit) and on the 4th day ,we'll be spending it at Wrigley Field which is awesome (if I book this gig, of course).

My concern, as a freelancer and not a business, is that I know how much the companies I freelance for would charge for this. They'd charge anywhere as low as $10K and as high as $25K. I know that not only am I worth that, I'm better than the stuff they churn out, but as an individual freelancer, I don't have the company reputation to fall back on and I get to this point where I need to submit a proposal and I have a crisis on how much to charge for so I a) don't price myself out of their budget or b) price myself too low and don't get what I'm worth. This will be A LOT of work, and the editing needs a fast turn around on several videos where I'll need to sort through hours of footage to put together short recap videos within 6 days after the event. I'll need to rent equipment and hire on a second operator and a photographer so this is a legit production no different than a local business would do, it's just under little old me and not a proper business.

Anyone have any suggestions or experience in this realm? The company is a global company it seems, so they got money. I mean it appears they're taking the whole conference to the Cubs game on the last day. Do I quote conservative and get a nice paycheck, but settle for less than I COULD get, or go for the honest price and quote them what this time is worth and risk them being scared away if they weren't looking to spend that much? I hate this dilemma. The former would set me up personally for a few months. The latter would help pay off some debts and allow me to invest in my own personal projects and business development AND set me up for a few months on top of that.


Logan,

I started my own architecture firm moonlighting. One thing I did discover is that if you charge too little, people will assume you aren't as good. Its scary to charge what is industry standard because you don't want to lose them to the bigger office, I still struggle with that. But eventually, you have to get in their ballpark on fees.

Sell them that they are hiring YOU. That YOU will be doing the filming, the editing, and production. That YOU are solely responsible and they won't be calling a big company trying to get answers. And charge your worth.
5 x
Image

User avatar
WrigleyField 22
Superstar
Posts: 12539
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:48 pm
Location: hnderstabxcwhsg
x 1780
x 860

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri May 17, 2019 6:42 pm

The Logan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Well you definitely have to figure out what you want your rate to be and stick with it because it sounds like there is pretty wide pricing in the market.

Are you basing your quotes solely off what you know a full production company charges or have you been able to network with other freelancers on this sort of thing?

Just at a high level, there is market rate and your cost. Your cost is obviously pretty subjective as you probably have little overhead, but you should take the time to try and Calc out all your overheads and then plot out an hourly wage you'd need to charge for all your projects you can realistically work in a year and still put out quality product (factoring in of course not just what you'd earn as salary as a waged employee, but insurance and all that other stuff). That's your floor from now on. To the extent you can accurately guage market rate, that's your max, but since there is a large market range and that uncertainty, you have that cost floor to fall back on when you feel you need a conservative bid when you really want a deal.

That's all knowing nothing about your industry, but that's how I'd approach it.


I've worked out how many hours this would be shooting and how many more hours it would be editing and I'm pricing my personal hours based on a rate that I've been told I should be charging. When I started to freelance and handed out quotes for my hourly rate I was basing it off of Chicago based video production salaries which comes out to around $25/hr on average. It wasn't until later than several freelancers to,d me I need to be charging twice, if not three times as much, because freelancing is not a full-time job and I need to take care of my own personal costs a full-time job would cover like insurance and what not.

So I still freelance for this dude at $25/hr because he continually gives me work, but anyone else I'm not quoting anywhere from $50-$75/hr which I'd be quoting this company on the high end of that for my personal time. There's going to be a good 50-60 hours of work here between shooting and editing just for me alone.

FWIW, the guy I freelance for, when I"m working at $25/hr, he's quoting the client $125/hr. So I'm sitting here doing all the work for $25/hr and he's pocketing $100/hr. It upsets me, but at the same time, it's money I need and wouldn't get otherwise. That's the trap. This job would allow me to start marketing myself as a business so I could start making the type of money this other dude is making and build some legitimacy behind my name and my product.

Well definitely sounds like that person gave you good advice about not charging the 25/hr rate. Whatever you decide your personal "business rate" is, I wouldn't go too much lower for the freelance stuff (not sure if you have any room to realistically counter that rate or not- have you ever tried?)
1 x
Image

User avatar
The Logan
Superstar
Posts: 15173
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am
Location: Lakeview
x 5454
x 1819

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby The Logan » Fri May 17, 2019 6:44 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:Logan,

I started my own architecture firm moonlighting. One thing I did discover is that if you charge too little, people will assume you aren't as good. Its scary to charge what is industry standard because you don't want to lose them to the bigger office, I still struggle with that. But eventually, you have to get in their ballpark on fees.

Sell them that they are hiring YOU. That YOU will be doing the filming, the editing, and production. That YOU are solely responsible and they won't be calling a big company trying to get answers. And charge your worth.


This is a great motivator for me, thank you!
0 x
Image

big ball chunky time
Formerly imb!
Posts: 32992
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:57 am
x 2545
x 6595
Contact:

Re: General Chit-Chat thread

Postby big ball chunky time » Fri May 17, 2019 8:04 pm

offer them basic economy logan, the cost for service is only $1*


* additional fees may apply
2 x
Duke Silver wrote:You've never been right about anything. You bitch and moan at the slightest hint of things not going right ... Suck my ass, you whiny little bitch.


Return to “Social”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: WrigleyField 22 and 9 guests