Politics & Current Events

NOLA
All-Star
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 915
x 645
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:04 pm

Hasn’t the House already subpoenaed the call transcripts from that coded server?
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:08 pm

NOLA wrote:Hasn’t the House already subpoenaed the call transcripts from that coded server?

THAT'S A LEGAL QUAGMIRE THAT CANNOT BE NAVIGATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

NOLA
All-Star
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 915
x 645
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:14 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:Hasn’t the House already subpoenaed the call transcripts from that coded server?

THAT'S A LEGAL QUAGMIRE THAT CANNOT BE NAVIGATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m definitely more in agreement with Sofa on this one, and Trump hiding files was only revealed after the whistleblower came forward. I’m sure Mueller is sitting on a beach somewhere wishing he’d also had a whistleblower in his investigation.
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:23 pm

NOLA wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:Hasn’t the House already subpoenaed the call transcripts from that coded server?

THAT'S A LEGAL QUAGMIRE THAT CANNOT BE NAVIGATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m definitely more in agreement with Sofa on this one, and Trump hiding files was only revealed after the whistleblower came forward. I’m sure Mueller is sitting on a beach somewhere wishing he’d also had a whistleblower in his investigation.

I mean...ideally you'd interview those would-be whistleblowers before they have to find a whistle. There are a lot of 302s that Barr has been sitting on. It will be interesting if/when they see the light of day. Some of them are coming down the pipe after the Dems asked for those grand jury materials and a Judge told the DOJ to get a move on. Now, they are going to be redacted and processed, because of course, but Congress will get to see interviews with Bannon, Comey, Flynn, Gates, McCabe, McGahn, Priebus, Sessions, and others pretty soon. And do you know why? Because they were asked for and a Judge said yeah. That's how it works. The special council had/has a lot of powers. I don't know why Mojo thinks something put on a top secret server means its in a never-ending legal black hole. From what little I know about classified information (which is a little more than the average person) that isn't how it works.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:Hasn’t the House already subpoenaed the call transcripts from that coded server?

THAT'S A LEGAL QUAGMIRE THAT CANNOT BE NAVIGATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What do you think any kind of weight a subpoena has in this situation? They might as well be throwing paper airplanes at the white house. It's political show (they do have, however, other routes to pursue via subpoena that do have some power behind them, but gaining access to a White House classified server is not one of them).
0 x

CubinNY
Hall of Fame
Posts: 22881
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:52 pm
Location: Pike Road, Al
x 287
x 603

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby CubinNY » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:28 pm

Mueller completely did his job and laid the information in front of congress. Congress horsefeathers the bed.
3 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:31 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:Hasn’t the House already subpoenaed the call transcripts from that coded server?

THAT'S A LEGAL QUAGMIRE THAT CANNOT BE NAVIGATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What do you think any kind of weight a subpoena has in this situation? They might as well be throwing paper airplanes at the white house. It's political show (they do have, however, other routes to pursue via subpoena that do have some power behind them, but gaining access to a White House classified server is not one of them).

Is paper especially expensive these days or something? Tell management to open the pocketbooks and just, you know, ask for the horsefeathering transcripts. Now, maybe Mueller did try to access the server. Maybe it got shot down. Maybe Mueller included the existance of the server's contents in the report and it got Barr'd. I don't know these things. ...but its something that I think was pertinent to the investigation, and the report failed to give us the 411 on it.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:37 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:THAT'S A LEGAL QUAGMIRE THAT CANNOT BE NAVIGATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What do you think any kind of weight a subpoena has in this situation? They might as well be throwing paper airplanes at the white house. It's political show (they do have, however, other routes to pursue via subpoena that do have some power behind them, but gaining access to a White House classified server is not one of them).

Is paper especially expensive these days or something? Tell management to open the pocketbooks and just, you know, ask for the horsefeathering transcripts. Now, maybe Mueller did try to access the server. Maybe it got shot down. Maybe Mueller included the existance of the server's contents in the report and it got Barr'd. I don't know these things. ...but its something that I think was pertinent to the investigation, and the report failed to give us the 411 on it.


Literally everything we saw of how Mueller handled this shows how tightly they ran this investigation. There was zero chance they were going to put themselves out there with something as loud as, "SPECIAL COUNSEL TRYING TO GAIN UNPRECEDENTED ACCESS TO WHITE HOUSE TOP SECRET SEVER." You'd have every government agency clamoring now also clamoring to shut the investigation down, or doing even more to stymie it.

And the only way they saw anything on it is if someone with access leaked it to them.
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:48 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Literally everything we saw of how Mueller handled this shows how tightly they ran this investigation. There was zero chance they were going to put themselves out there with something as loud as, "SPECIAL COUNSEL TRYING TO GAIN UNPRECEDENTED ACCESS TO WHITE HOUSE TOP SECRET SEVER." You'd have every government agency clamoring now also clamoring to shut the investigation down, or doing even more to stymie it.

And the only way they saw anything on it is if someone with access leaked it to them.

Yes. That's why we don't know if Mueller pursued this or not. But the report could have mentioned the server's existence. Or he could have mentioned it in testimony. Btw, for your and my own interests, I would have LOVED for government agencies to clamor about shutting the investigation down. Double-secret-stymie steps would have been encouraged.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:50 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Yes. That's why we don't know if Mueller pursued this or not. But the report could have mentioned the server's existence. Or he could have mentioned it in testimony.


Wait, do you think the server's very existence is a problem? Again, the problem isn't that they have the server; it's that they were potentially trying to move things on the server elsewhere, or somehow make them "more restricted."
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Yes. That's why we don't know if Mueller pursued this or not. But the report could have mentioned the server's existence. Or he could have mentioned it in testimony.


Wait, do you think the server's very existence is a problem? Again, the problem isn't that they have the server; it's that they were potentially trying to move things on the server elsewhere, or somehow make them "more restricted."

Oh of course not. They were misusing the classification process. You can't do illegal things. You can also not hide illegal things on classified servers solely to stash them away. I should have said the server's "abuse" than "existence."
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

NOLA
All-Star
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 915
x 645
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:13 pm

CubinNY wrote:Mueller completely did his job and laid the information in front of congress. Congress horsefeathers the bed.

This can’t be said enough. The only difference between Mueller and Ukraine is that this is easier for the public to digest.
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:16 pm

NOLA wrote:
CubinNY wrote:Mueller completely did his job and laid the information in front of congress. Congress horsefeathers the bed.

This can’t be said enough. The only difference between Mueller and Ukraine are that this is easier for the public to digest.

Image
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:18 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Yes. That's why we don't know if Mueller pursued this or not. But the report could have mentioned the server's existence. Or he could have mentioned it in testimony.


Wait, do you think the server's very existence is a problem? Again, the problem isn't that they have the server; it's that they were potentially trying to move things on the server elsewhere, or somehow make them "more restricted."

Oh of course not. They were misusing the classification process. You can't do illegal things. You can also not hide illegal things on classified servers solely to stash them away. I should have said the server's "abuse" than "existence."


Right, but then we're right back into the well trod territory of what is exactly illegal when it's done by the president (or his office). You basically get into existential debates as to what they can and can put on the server (precedent leans heavily towards anything), what they can and can't classify (precedent: see the previous question), and whether what is on there is actually evidence of something illegal.

Nobody wants to open the can of worms, and this is a mountain of cans the size of the Great Pyramid. Testimony and money trails are what matters here. Nobody's getting to that server unless someone with access basically sacrifices everything to leak something from it.
0 x

NOLA
All-Star
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 915
x 645
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:19 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:
CubinNY wrote:Mueller completely did his job and laid the information in front of congress. Congress horsefeathers the bed.

This can’t be said enough. The only difference between Mueller and Ukraine are that this is easier for the public to digest.

Image

That’s adorable, but explain why?
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:31 pm

NOLA wrote:That’s adorable, but explain why?

There are notable differences between Mueller and Ukraine. Namely, one is a person and another is a country, but that's just the tip of the iceburg.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:33 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Wait, do you think the server's very existence is a problem? Again, the problem isn't that they have the server; it's that they were potentially trying to move things on the server elsewhere, or somehow make them "more restricted."

Oh of course not. They were misusing the classification process. You can't do illegal things. You can also not hide illegal things on classified servers solely to stash them away. I should have said the server's "abuse" than "existence."


Right, but then we're right back into the well trod territory of what is exactly illegal when it's done by the president (or his office). You basically get into existential debates as to what they can and can put on the server (precedent leans heavily towards anything), what they can and can't classify (precedent: see the previous question), and whether what is on there is actually evidence of something illegal.

Nobody wants to open the can of worms, and this is a mountain of cans the size of the Great Pyramid. Testimony and money trails are what matters here. Nobody's getting to that server unless someone with access basically sacrifices everything to leak something from it.

...are you allowed to put treasonous conversations on it?
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:41 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:Oh of course not. They were misusing the classification process. You can't do illegal things. You can also not hide illegal things on classified servers solely to stash them away. I should have said the server's "abuse" than "existence."


Right, but then we're right back into the well trod territory of what is exactly illegal when it's done by the president (or his office). You basically get into existential debates as to what they can and can put on the server (precedent leans heavily towards anything), what they can and can't classify (precedent: see the previous question), and whether what is on there is actually evidence of something illegal.

Nobody wants to open the can of worms, and this is a mountain of cans the size of the Great Pyramid. Testimony and money trails are what matters here. Nobody's getting to that server unless someone with access basically sacrifices everything to leak something from it.

...are you allowed to put treasonous conversations on it?


You have to prove that there are treasonous conversations on it. Which you can only do by gaining access. So you see how we end up back at the beginning.

It's much smarter to focus on the whistle blower testimony. That's the best proof that they'll ever have (but it is, sadly, not nearly enough to set the insane precedent of people having access to a sitting president's classified server). They don't need the server to make their case.
0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:42 pm

I mean, look at it this way: they can't even get Trump's tax records to this point. How the holy blue horsefeathers are they going to get a classified Oval Office server?
0 x

NOLA
All-Star
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 915
x 645
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:49 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:That’s adorable, but explain why?

There are notable differences between Mueller and Ukraine. Namely, one is a person and another is a country, but that's just the tip of the iceburg.

True, but I’d hoped you would explain why that was hyperbolic.
0 x

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:51 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I mean, look at it this way: they can't even get Trump's tax records to this point. How the holy blue horsefeathers are they going to get a classified Oval Office server?

Looks like the inquiry is going to get Trump's tax records pretty damn soon since Trump's appeal was denied, so not sure what to say to that.

Tell me this: hypothetically, if you handed a judge some 502s with intel officials as evidence that felonious conversations were stashed on a top secret server, how different is that than Congress subpoenaing the Nixon tapes? Sure, Nixon resigned before he turned over the tapes, but...
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 4390
x 1914

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 pm

NOLA wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:That’s adorable, but explain why?

There are notable differences between Mueller and Ukraine. Namely, one is a person and another is a country, but that's just the tip of the iceburg.

True, but I’d hoped you would explain why that was hyperbolic.

You'll have to keep hoping. Just imagine what I'd say instead.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

NOLA
All-Star
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 915
x 645
Contact:

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby NOLA » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:59 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:
JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:There are notable differences between Mueller and Ukraine. Namely, one is a person and another is a country, but that's just the tip of the iceburg.

True, but I’d hoped you would explain why that was hyperbolic.

You'll have to keep hoping. Just imagine what I'd say instead.

Everyone look at the witty message board kid.
0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 82123
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 13010
x 15583

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:00 am

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I mean, look at it this way: they can't even get Trump's tax records to this point. How the holy blue horsefeathers are they going to get a classified Oval Office server?

Looks like the inquiry is going to get Trump's tax records pretty damn soon since Trump's appeal was denied, so not sure what to say to that.

Tell me this: hypothetically, if you handed a judge some 502s with intel officials as evidence that felonious conversations were stashed on a top secret server, how different is that than Congress subpoenaing the Nixon tapes? Sure, Nixon resigned before he turned over the tapes, but...


White House recording systems to that point were at the discretion of the president and were arguably personal decisions/setups. This is an official classified server expressly for the president's office.

The Justice Department is going to keep appealing any attempts to get his tax records. They're not showing up any time soon. The extraordinary lengths they've gone to keep them hidden (and successfully) just emphasizes how ridiculous it would be to get into the WH server.
0 x

UK
Hall of Fame
Posts: 20867
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:38 pm
x 162
x 494

Re: Politics & Current Events

Postby UK » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:34 am

The best way to win this election is the economy tanking and voting him out.

Expecting Ukraine to factor beyond a blip 13 months before an election is wishful thinking.

Or the fat horsefeathers dies in his sleep.
0 x


Return to “Social”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Forgotmyoldlogin and 5 guests