2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby UMFan83 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:38 pm

I'm by no means a good draft pick evaluator, but if MPJ is available at 6, you have to take him right? Obviously has considerable risk with his injury but probably has 3rd best ceiling in the draft after Ayton and Doncic. I don't like Bamba (useful but limited ceiling), Jaren Jackson (has too many holes), Wendell Carter (limited ceiling) or Trae Young (high ceiling but spectacular bust odds). I don't mind Bridges or Bagley but I don't think they quite have the upside of Porter (plus I don't think Bagley will be available at 6).
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Andy » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:39 pm

UMFan83 wrote:I'm by no means a good draft pick evaluator, but if MPJ is available at 6, you have to take him right? Obviously has considerable risk with his injury but probably has 3rd best ceiling in the draft after Ayton and Doncic. I don't like Bamba (useful but limited ceiling), Jaren Jackson (has too many holes), Wendell Carter (limited ceiling) or Trae Young (high ceiling but spectacular bust odds). I don't mind Bridges or Bagley but I don't think they quite have the upside of Porter (plus I don't think Bagley will be available at 6).

As someone who doesn't know diddly about the draft either, I think I agree with you. Trae Young is exciting but I don't want the Bulls going anywhere near him. Might as well grab a lottery ticket if Porter is there.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:31 pm

As long as his back looks good, he's who I want at 6 or 7. If its iffy, then I want Bamba. If both those are off the board at 6, JJJ is likely available and he'd be my next choice.

But, I AM worried about Porter defensively and if he can be effective in the NBA at the 3. Still, the upside is enormous and I'd take him over Mikal Bridges or Wendell Carter, who I'd actually take over Trae Young personally.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Wed May 16, 2018 12:35 am

Bulls pick 7th. If they had lost the coin flip with the Kings, they'd be picking 2nd.

Hopefully one of Bamba or Porter makes it to 7. But, I'd be OK with Carter.

Do think there's a really good chance Young or Sexton go 6 to Orlando. Which knocks someone down to 7.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:22 am

Lol bolls.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Wed May 16, 2018 2:52 am

I want either Michael Porter Jr. or Mikal Bridges. No thanks on taking Bamba or Trae Young.

Please stay away from Wendell Carter and other crappy Duke players GarPax. There's only one good Duke player in this draft (Bagley) and we ain't getting him.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby ChiCubsFan » Wed May 16, 2018 5:09 am

davell wrote:Bulls pick 7th. If they had lost the coin flip with the Kings, they'd be picking 2nd.

Hopefully one of Bamba or Porter makes it to 7. But, I'd be OK with Carter.

Do think there's a really good chance Young or Sexton go 6 to Orlando. Which knocks someone down to 7.


I don’t know the exact process of the lottery but the coin flip was just to determine seeding if neither moved up. They had the exact same odds of picks 1-3. So it’s quite possible that it wouldn’t have mattered. I don’t know how the balls are assigned. And I’d rather just assume either way we would have been 7. Pretty big disappointment, though.

So assuming top 6 are Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, JJJ, Bamba, and Porter. We have our pick of Young, Carter or Bridges. I could see Bridges and/or Young moving up which would push Bamba and/or Porter to us. Not a terrible spot to be in. Seeing what Markkanen and Mitchell did this year, makes me feel better about not being higher.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Flames24Rulz » Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 pm

ChiCubsFan wrote:
davell wrote:Bulls pick 7th. If they had lost the coin flip with the Kings, they'd be picking 2nd.

Hopefully one of Bamba or Porter makes it to 7. But, I'd be OK with Carter.

Do think there's a really good chance Young or Sexton go 6 to Orlando. Which knocks someone down to 7.


I don’t know the exact process of the lottery but the coin flip was just to determine seeding if neither moved up. They had the exact same odds of picks 1-3. So it’s quite possible that it wouldn’t have mattered. I don’t know how the balls are assigned. And I’d rather just assume either way we would have been 7. Pretty big disappointment, though.


Accoring to Zach Lowe, the Bulls "winning" that tiebreaker with the Kings cost them the #2 spot because the Bulls would've had those lottery combinations that the Kings ended up having. Pretty disappointing, but they managed to screw up enough this year by winning games they shouldn't have been winning anyway.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2351 ... ento-kings

The Kings made that jump only because they lost a "coin flip" (actually a separate drawing) in April with the Bulls. Had that coin flip gone the other way, Chicago owns the four-number combination in question and is picking No. 2. Atlanta similarly won Tuesday night by losing a coin flip with Dallas, which fell to No. 5.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Wed May 16, 2018 9:32 pm

There's not many teams with cap room this offseason. Here's what you've got.....

Lakers-61.8M
Bulls-41.5M
Philly-30.5M
Hawks-29.2M
Kings-24.6M
Mavs-23.8M
Rockets-22M
Nets-16.7M
Magic-15M
Suns-13.2M
Jazz-11.7M
Pacers-8.1M
Pelicans-700,000
Spurs-700,000

Everyone else is over the cap. Some by a lot. LaVine comes out of our space, so we aren't in as good of shape as it initially looks. The Bulls aren't getting any of the elite guys this offseason. The "plan" evidently is to show improvement this season and go big into the following FA class. Right now, that class includes Kyrie, Kemba, Klay, and Jimmy. Lesser guys too, but those are the big ones. And Jimmy is the only one we'd have a shot at.

I guess you could gamble on Cousins right now. If we gave him a max, I'm sure he'd come.

Personally, I'd look into some of the RFA's this offsesson. See if you could get Aaron Gordon or Clint Capela. Look into Randle, Nurkic, Jabari, and Smart. Even Hood. See if you can steal one of them. Parker and Hood are likely changing teams and should be cheap. I figure Smart leaves Boston too. The rest aren't easy to get, but you might as well look into it.

In the mean time, you've got to take on some bad money for more picks. They've talked about keeping room for a bit FA next year..... horsefeathers that. Jimmy doesn't put you over the top lol. Hell, he's not really a great fit in this offense anyway. Take on bad money and add some more 1sts. You can do that with ease, just by taking on 2 years of a bad deal. Plenty of teams are going to be trying to free up space this offseason, you've got to take advantage of that. We're a lottery team again next season, with the reform, maybe we get luckier.....

But, the current group, plus 7 and 22, plus a top 10 pick next year and the hope of Jimmy, Kyrie, Klay, or Kawhi? That seems to be the plan. I think the big FA thing isn't happening and I think they need as many lotto ticket picks as possible, hoping to get lucky, no matter where they fall.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby David » Thu May 17, 2018 1:04 am

will they even attempt visits with lebron or anyone else? how do you not?

also i have my fingers crossed for porter at this point
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby UK » Thu May 17, 2018 1:42 am

Porter or bust, I'd hate to see a low ceiling/high floor pick here at 7.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Thu May 17, 2018 5:04 am

UK wrote:Porter or bust, I'd hate to see a low ceiling/high floor pick here at 7.


I like Porter, but we need to be careful about drafting players with back issues. I'm sure the Bulls will do a full physical and MRI on him. I want to avoid drafting a player who is chronically injured.

Porter has a high ceiling, but he also has a low floor (could bust). We all remember how much potential Jabari Parker had, and injuries have taken their toll on him. He's not the same player anymore and that's why Milwaukee will let him walk. I am worried about Porter's health and slightly above-average athleticism.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby UK » Thu May 17, 2018 5:49 am

Regular Show wrote:
UK wrote:Porter or bust, I'd hate to see a low ceiling/high floor pick here at 7.


I like Porter, but we need to be careful about drafting players with back issues. I'm sure the Bulls will do a full physical and MRI on him. I want to avoid drafting a player who is chronically injured.

Porter has a high ceiling, but he also has a low floor (could bust). We all remember how much potential Jabari Parker had, and injuries have taken their toll on him. He's not the same player anymore and that's why Milwaukee will let him walk. I am worried about Porter's health and slightly above-average athleticism.


There's the problem with where the Bulls are at and where they are drafting. They have no superstar, no go-to guy, they go safe and they might get a 5th guy in their rotation or more likely 6th-7th man. That does nothing. They need a superstar, they've failed miserably at getting that in FA, they need to do it in the draft.

They're probably better off having the pick bust and stay around 25 wins rather than drafting a guy who might help them get to 30 wins. I want them to draft guys with the highest ceilings, if that comes with the biggest risk, it's what they have to do.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:17 pm

UK wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
UK wrote:Porter or bust, I'd hate to see a low ceiling/high floor pick here at 7.


I like Porter, but we need to be careful about drafting players with back issues. I'm sure the Bulls will do a full physical and MRI on him. I want to avoid drafting a player who is chronically injured.

Porter has a high ceiling, but he also has a low floor (could bust). We all remember how much potential Jabari Parker had, and injuries have taken their toll on him. He's not the same player anymore and that's why Milwaukee will let him walk. I am worried about Porter's health and slightly above-average athleticism.


There's the problem with where the Bulls are at and where they are drafting. They have no superstar, no go-to guy, they go safe and they might get a 5th guy in their rotation or more likely 6th-7th man. That does nothing. They need a superstar, they've failed miserably at getting that in FA, they need to do it in the draft.

They're probably better off having the pick bust and stay around 25 wins rather than drafting a guy who might help them get to 30 wins. I want them to draft guys with the highest ceilings, if that comes with the biggest risk, it's what they have to do.

Drafting for high potential is one thing, but if chronic injury concerns are a component of the risk, it's a whole additional thing.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:27 pm

That said, theres more than one way to go about this.

Miami (first chanouonship) and Boston are two examples of teams turning a bunch of very good but not great assets into trade fodder and a NBA championship (they both also had a mid-lotto cornerstone, let's just call Lauri that and assume he continues to develop for the sake of this arguement).

Bulls had a chance to do that too if not for a no trade clause from Kobe, some overvaluing of assets (Gasol), and undervaluing of other assets because of the luxury tax. Obviously neither Miami or Boston built a dynasty with that approach and if you wanna be in there year-in and year-out you need a Lebron, Durant, Curry, but if that's the goal... well yea, not much you can do.

That being the case, if the Bulls want a volume approach they have to stop selling picks and start buying picks. So I'm not overall that hopeful.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby UMFan83 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:27 pm

UK wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
UK wrote:Porter or bust, I'd hate to see a low ceiling/high floor pick here at 7.


I like Porter, but we need to be careful about drafting players with back issues. I'm sure the Bulls will do a full physical and MRI on him. I want to avoid drafting a player who is chronically injured.

Porter has a high ceiling, but he also has a low floor (could bust). We all remember how much potential Jabari Parker had, and injuries have taken their toll on him. He's not the same player anymore and that's why Milwaukee will let him walk. I am worried about Porter's health and slightly above-average athleticism.


There's the problem with where the Bulls are at and where they are drafting. They have no superstar, no go-to guy, they go safe and they might get a 5th guy in their rotation or more likely 6th-7th man. That does nothing. They need a superstar, they've failed miserably at getting that in FA, they need to do it in the draft.

They're probably better off having the pick bust and stay around 25 wins rather than drafting a guy who might help them get to 30 wins. I want them to draft guys with the highest ceilings, if that comes with the biggest risk, it's what they have to do.


This exactly. At their spot in the draft and in their position, to get a potential superstar you have to get one with risks. Many had Porter #1 on their draft boards before the season started.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Thu May 17, 2018 2:27 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:That said, theres more than one way to go about this.

Miami (first chanouonship) and Boston are two examples of teams turning a bunch of very good but not great assets into trade fodder and a NBA championship (they both also had a mid-lotto cornerstone, let's just call Lauri that and assume he continues to develop for the sake of this arguement).

Bulls had a chance to do that too if not for a no trade clause from Kobe, some overvaluing of assets (Gasol), and undervaluing of other assets because of the luxury tax. Obviously neither Miami or Boston built a dynasty with that approach and if you wanna be in there year-in and year-out you need a Lebron, Durant, Curry, but if that's the goal... well yea, not much you can do.

That being the case, if the Bulls want a volume approach they have to stop selling picks and start buying picks. So I'm not overall that hopeful.


There's lots of teams out there that are needing to move money to create room for FA. There are even plenty of teams with guys in their last years, that need moving. Granted, you're probably getting 2nds in those deals, but still...... And yeah, they horsefeathering sold a pick for 3.5M this past year, then said it was "currency" for the future. Cash that in and buy one this year.

But yeah, you've got to add assets. And our ways to do it are thru trading off Holiday, Lopez, and anyone else not named Lauri, Dunn, LaVine, Portis, and Valentine. Those are the 5 guys Paxson mentioned as safe, even if I'd trade the last 2 of them, since they'll start getting expensive soon. We've got cap.space to take on money and it needs to be used for that and not some half ass FA. Or on a young RFA that can be here a long time.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby rawaction » Fri May 18, 2018 1:30 am

Any chance the Bulls package both picks and get into the top 4? Would that even matter?

I really like the idea of Porter. Obviously, his back has to check out. Usually 19 year olds with back problems don't end well, but I like his fit for the Bulls moreso than any other player that's going to go outside of the top 2. I think a gamble that his back holds up is worth whatever chance he has to basically become a poor man's Durant. Definitely moreso than going for a defensive guy/rebounder like Carter, Bamba or Jackson Jr.

I do like Jackson's game a lot though, but he's probably going top 4 after Doncic, Ayton, and Bagley.

If no Porter, I'd probably take Sexton and trade Dunn.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby davell » Fri May 18, 2018 1:30 am

https://670thescore.radio.com/bulls-mic ... ack-injury

This article is getting my hopes up on MPJ too much.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Brian » Fri May 18, 2018 1:57 am

he's going to be picked 6th and it's going to piss us off for years
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Fri May 18, 2018 2:55 am

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2353 ... uri-tigers

"I know without a doubt that I'm the -- I played against all these guys, they're all great players -- but I'm the best player in this draft," Porter said. "And I just can't wait to show what I'm capable of."


Well, he certainly doesn't lack in confidence. I get why players say this and have this mentality, but it would be refreshing to hear a young player say he is among the best players in a draft without having to triumphantly say he is the best player. You look dumb when you can't or don't back up your words -- looking at you Lonzo Ball (and his dad).
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby UK » Fri May 18, 2018 3:05 am

rawaction wrote:Any chance the Bulls package both picks and get into the top 4? Would that even matter?

I really like the idea of Porter. Obviously, his back has to check out. Usually 19 year olds with back problems don't end well, but I like his fit for the Bulls moreso than any other player that's going to go outside of the top 2. I think a gamble that his back holds up is worth whatever chance he has to basically become a poor man's Durant. Definitely moreso than going for a defensive guy/rebounder like Carter, Bamba or Jackson Jr.

I do like Jackson's game a lot though, but he's probably going top 4 after Doncic, Ayton, and Bagley.

If no Porter, I'd probably take Sexton and trade Dunn.


There's no value in that 22nd pick, it might get them to 6 at best. They'd have to include an unconditional #1 next year to get into top 4 range.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby Regular Show » Fri May 18, 2018 3:51 am

UK wrote:
rawaction wrote:Any chance the Bulls package both picks and get into the top 4? Would that even matter?

I really like the idea of Porter. Obviously, his back has to check out. Usually 19 year olds with back problems don't end well, but I like his fit for the Bulls moreso than any other player that's going to go outside of the top 2. I think a gamble that his back holds up is worth whatever chance he has to basically become a poor man's Durant. Definitely moreso than going for a defensive guy/rebounder like Carter, Bamba or Jackson Jr.

I do like Jackson's game a lot though, but he's probably going top 4 after Doncic, Ayton, and Bagley.

If no Porter, I'd probably take Sexton and trade Dunn.


There's no value in that 22nd pick, it might get them to 6 at best. They'd have to include an unconditional #1 next year to get into top 4 range.


Yeah, the 22nd pick doesn't have that much value. I don't think the pick for next year's draft would have to be unconditional to move up. You could probably put some limited protection on it, but all teams know the Bulls will probably be better next year so that pick would most likely fall somewhere in the 10-15 range.

The package would have to be this year's pick + next year's pick (limited protection) + probably B. Portis + maybe a 2nd round pick down the road. It would hurt to move up.
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby bcl412 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:02 pm

Regular Show wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23533496/michael-porter-jr-says-best-player-nba-draft-injury-plagued-season-missouri-tigers

"I know without a doubt that I'm the -- I played against all these guys, they're all great players -- but I'm the best player in this draft," Porter said. "And I just can't wait to show what I'm capable of."


Well, he certainly doesn't lack in confidence. I get why players say this and have this mentality, but it would be refreshing to hear a young player say he is among the best players in a draft without having to triumphantly say he is the best player. You look dumb when you can't or don't back up your words -- looking at you Lonzo Ball (and his dad).


I love arrogance in an NBA player as long as they have the work ethic to back it up
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Re: 2017-18 Bulls Thread - Fly the Tank W

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri May 18, 2018 2:05 pm

Regular Show wrote:
UK wrote:
rawaction wrote:Any chance the Bulls package both picks and get into the top 4? Would that even matter?

I really like the idea of Porter. Obviously, his back has to check out. Usually 19 year olds with back problems don't end well, but I like his fit for the Bulls moreso than any other player that's going to go outside of the top 2. I think a gamble that his back holds up is worth whatever chance he has to basically become a poor man's Durant. Definitely moreso than going for a defensive guy/rebounder like Carter, Bamba or Jackson Jr.

I do like Jackson's game a lot though, but he's probably going top 4 after Doncic, Ayton, and Bagley.

If no Porter, I'd probably take Sexton and trade Dunn.


There's no value in that 22nd pick, it might get them to 6 at best. They'd have to include an unconditional #1 next year to get into top 4 range.


Yeah, the 22nd pick doesn't have that much value. I don't think the pick for next year's draft would have to be unconditional to move up. You could probably put some limited protection on it, but all teams know the Bulls will probably be better next year so that pick would most likely fall somewhere in the 10-15 range.

The package would have to be this year's pick + next year's pick (limited protection) + probably B. Portis + maybe a 2nd round pick down the road. It would hurt to move up.

Interestingly, Bobby Portis was pick 22 which is about as good of a turnout you could realistically hope for with that level pick.

I'm not sure I like any attempt to move up. I'd rather take two swings at building assets.
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