The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:34 am

Because I don't want to read a report right now ...

Just for fun, because of Theo's comments about it being "virtually impossible"

Can anyone come up with Bryant deal that

a) Makes sense for the Cubs
b) Makes sense for the opposing team?
c) Offers the Cubs a headline player
d) Offers the Cubs future assets or other useful immediate assets

Been trying to do that for the last ... 5 minutes or so. Kept pondering the A's as a surprise, but I can't talk myself into believing that Beane trades years of cost control on Chapman away. Thought the Yankees, but ... putting Gleyber in seems unlikely. Don't see a match with Boston. Wonder about the Rays. Don't see them dealing him to any team in the NL Central barring a total fireburner. Rockies don't make sense - they may ponder dealing Arenado, but Bryant would bring in the same cost problems on the horizon.

I'm left thinking

1. Nationals - Anthony Rendon and ????

Cubs would ask for Juan Soto, but I doubt the Nationals move Soto. Rendon/Bryant swap is a swap of two in-their-prime guys ... but Rendon's older. Something else would have to come along, and therein lies the problem. Victor Robles seems like too much ... they don't have pen arms that they would likely offer that provide more immediate certainty ...

2. Braves - Some young SP as a headliner, Johan Camargo (if we wanted a 3rd baseman), and ???

I just don't see, say, Foltyniewicz and Camargo as anywhere near close, but I wonder if that's my own bias in play.

3. Indians???

There seems like there could be something there ... if they are in win-now mode ... I just don't know what makes sense.

Dunno ... that's the three I like, but maybe I'm missing. AGAIN ... I don't think Bryant is being moved ... just waiting on stuff and thinking about the "virtually impossible to envision a deal" comment that Theo made.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:40 am

toonsterwu wrote:Because I don't want to read a report right now ...

Just for fun, because of Theo's comments about it being "virtually impossible"

Can anyone come up with Bryant deal that

a) Makes sense for the Cubs
b) Makes sense for the opposing team?
c) Offers the Cubs a headline player
d) Offers the Cubs future assets or other useful immediate assets

Been trying to do that for the last ... 5 minutes or so. Kept pondering the A's as a surprise, but I can't talk myself into believing that Beane trades years of cost control on Chapman away. Thought the Yankees, but ... putting Gleyber in seems unlikely. Don't see a match with Boston. Wonder about the Rays. Don't see them dealing him to any team in the NL Central barring a total fireburner. Rockies don't make sense - they may ponder dealing Arenado, but Bryant would bring in the same cost problems on the horizon.

I'm left thinking

1. Nationals - Anthony Rendon and ????

Cubs would ask for Juan Soto, but I doubt the Nationals move Soto. Rendon/Bryant swap is a swap of two in-their-prime guys ... but Rendon's older. Something else would have to come along, and therein lies the problem. Victor Robles seems like too much ... they don't have pen arms that they would likely offer that provide more immediate certainty ...

2. Braves - Some young SP as a headliner, Johan Camargo (if we wanted a 3rd baseman), and ???

I just don't see, say, Foltyniewicz and Camargo as anywhere near close, but I wonder if that's my own bias in play.

3. Indians???

There seems like there could be something there ... if they are in win-now mode ... I just don't know what makes sense.

Dunno ... that's the three I like, but maybe I'm missing. AGAIN ... I don't think Bryant is being moved ... just waiting on stuff and thinking about the "virtually impossible to envision a deal" comment that Theo made.

Yeah none of those names are remotely close for me. My list would start and end with Trout. Like Theo said “virtually impossible to envision a deal that makes sense.”


And a network that runs pretty much non stop “Take” programming when it’s not showing a live event probably isn’t below making Olney find a story to make some wild jumps on vague Theo quotes to make a story/headline that’s going to get clicks.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:45 am

i’d have a really hard time being upset over a deal involving mookie betts
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Andy » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:04 am

Banedon wrote:

Either Rizzo is a poor typist or he's enjoying his Friday night, and I think I know which one it is
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:35 am

A trade thay big is:

Red Sox
Yankees
The team that just lost 2 : Dodgers


Since the bosox look like gods next superteam, id say its the yankees that want Bryant.


Well then sign Harper


That kinda makes sense, but its also really weird.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:08 am

Some suggested pitcher reclamation projects with an eye on 2020+ impact, 2019 depth. Most aren’t actually available but whatever, this is going to be one long month and I’m already bored of what’s in the news. Anyway I am not including the more obvious names/usual suspects (J. Gray, S. Gray, Stroman, A. Sanchez, Fulmer, Gausman) and not listing any MiLs w/o ML experience. Generally most of these guys were once considered high quality prospects that got pumped up then lost in the shuffle after hitting the ML wall but somehow or another avoided major arm surgeries:

Carson Fulmer - Longenhagen made a comment that I agreed with (inspired this post even) in this week’s chat about Fulmer. Basically he’s a guy with good stuff and a very strong desire to be good, can eventually find a niche. I’ll add no major arm injury history or surgeries under his belt

Daniel Norris - Still really like the arm and as a SP, eventful if unsuccessful first act as a pro so far

Garrett Richards - I nominate him to be new Smyly. I hate TJ but his stuff is high level enough and the commit probably low enough...

Tyler Beede/Robert Stephenson - Lumping them together because they similar possibly largely mechanical and mental issues (command, breaking ball, weird/inconsistent fastball velocity, focus) and similar strengths (high pedigrees, clean arms, not unathletic on the mound, some solid ML performances with SP workloads, seemingly good makeup)

Kolby Allard - Pushed *very* hard by the Braves to the tune of 270+ innings at AA and above between the ages of 19 and 20. Allowed just 20 HRs in that span showing better than expected control and command, arm has stayed clean...Guys who log innings like this and stay healthy, especially so young, are the ones I think have more potential to surprise than most (including improving stuff or velocity)

Julio Teheran - Way out of the obvious category these years. Despite seeming 40 years old he’s only 28 next year. Still gets a high amount of whiffs on his four seam and slider for a guy who has fallen so far off radar

Luis Perdomo - Don’t see him as a SP but do think he could find a niche as a useful long reliever/spot arm with his power sinker. Different style of pitcher but Bryan Mitchell in the same org fits here too

Brad Wieck - Giant LH reliever in the Padres org

Archie Bradley - Including him because the interest would be in converting him back to a SP

Drew Pomeranz - Healthy LHs with four seams that miss bats and an ability to spin are going to get the benefit of doubt from me on potential to rehab a career. He needs to hook up with Rich Hill and maybe consider becoming more of a curveballer, maybe

International bonus: Shintaro Fujinami - Holy horsefeathers has he fallen off a cliff without blowing out his arm. Getting closer to being outright eligible to post IIRC which I might not be. Stuff is still potentially excellent but the guy’s lost the plate for two years now. He was once at least neck and neck with Ohtani for the top non-MLB SP talent in the whole wide world

I could think of or find a few more possibly even more grossly hipsterish but won’t for now.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 am

I thought Fulmer was a pen arm when he was at Vandy, and I still feel that way. A potentially elite pen arm, but I just don't buy him as a starter. Still, if you can get him and work on him, why not.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Bote McBoteface » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:09 pm

Any interest in Paxton from the Ms? The injury history is a worry. I wanna say that he’s a potentially dominant pen arm, but the cost to acquire him may be too high to then stick him in the pen.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby DonnieD » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:18 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:Any interest in Paxton from the Ms? The injury history is a worry. I wanna say that he’s a potentially dominant pen arm, but the cost to acquire him may be too high to then stick him in the pen.

James Paxton is NOT a pen arm.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:37 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:Any interest in Paxton from the Ms? The injury history is a worry. I wanna say that he’s a potentially dominant pen arm, but the cost to acquire him may be too high to then stick him in the pen.

Sure. I also think that Machado would be an excellent super sub. A billionaire's Jose Hernandez.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:30 pm

Dexter, Happ and Ross were playing golf today. I don’t care how dumb and irrational the idea is. Figure out a way to get Dexter back, send Chatwood (owed less overall $ and 1 less year) and a prospect or something. Then send Almora away for whatever you can get. Get the band back together for the FU revenge tour.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:14 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Dexter, Happ and Ross were playing golf today. I don’t care how dumb and irrational the idea is. Figure out a way to get Dexter back, send Chatwood (owed less overall $ and 1 less year) and a prospect or something. Then send Almora away for whatever you can get. Get the band back together for the FU revenge tour.


Damn, dude; they still play golf even if he's on another team.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:17 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Dexter, Happ and Ross were playing golf today. I don’t care how dumb and irrational the idea is. Figure out a way to get Dexter back, send Chatwood (owed less overall $ and 1 less year) and a prospect or something. Then send Almora away for whatever you can get. Get the band back together for the FU revenge tour.


Damn, dude; they still play golf even if he's on another team.

I just saw some pictures posted on social media, I didn't mean for my post to come across as the golf meaning anything more than some buddies hanging out and playing golf together in the offseason. It just got me thinking (irrationally) of bringing Dexter back.*








*It is a pretty sneaky move by Happ to start kissing ass with his future manager though and/or planning the kill on Joe.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:59 pm

I’d rather have chatwood than dex. Nice guy though
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Backtobanks » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:32 am

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:I’d rather have chatwood than dex. Nice guy though



I'd rather have Chatwood's contract than Fowler's contract.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:37 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Dexter, Happ and Ross were playing golf today. I don’t care how dumb and irrational the idea is. Figure out a way to get Dexter back, send Chatwood (owed less overall $ and 1 less year) and a prospect or something. Then send Almora away for whatever you can get. Get the band back together for the FU revenge tour.

I'd prefer to let the cardinals keep that contract
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Tim » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 pm

Trading for Dexter's contract would be a very Stan Bowman-esque move.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Bull » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:27 pm


Based on trading Bryant though.

I can see the “trade your elite third baseman for prospects and eat it to” logic, but I don’t like the idea of trading Bryant after what was by far his worst season, and I don’t like Machado over Bryant going forward. Bryant at less money, shorter term > Machado + prospects.

Also, the Cubs aren’t trading Bryant, so nothing to see here.
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:48 pm

Bull wrote:

Based on trading Bryant though.

I can see the “trade your elite third baseman for prospects and eat it to” logic, but I don’t like the idea of trading Bryant after what was by far his worst season, and I don’t like Machado over Bryant going forward. Bryant at less money, shorter term > Machado + prospects.

Also, the Cubs aren’t trading Bryant, so nothing to see here.


His angle is actually paying Machado at 26 v Bryant similar or more money at 29, without ruling out doing both, and not trading Bryant
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:06 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Bull wrote:

Based on trading Bryant though.

I can see the “trade your elite third baseman for prospects and eat it to” logic, but I don’t like the idea of trading Bryant after what was by far his worst season, and I don’t like Machado over Bryant going forward. Bryant at less money, shorter term > Machado + prospects.

Also, the Cubs aren’t trading Bryant, so nothing to see here.


His angle is actually paying Machado at 26 v Bryant similar or more money at 29, without ruling out doing both, and not trading Bryant


I'm reading it the way Bull did. That he's saying you sign Machado, who is younger and his deal will end sooner than what will be a 29 year old Bryant when the time comes, and Machado would then come with some of the "best prospects in baseball," meaning through trading KB.

No?
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:31 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
Bull wrote:Based on trading Bryant though.

I can see the “trade your elite third baseman for prospects and eat it to” logic, but I don’t like the idea of trading Bryant after what was by far his worst season, and I don’t like Machado over Bryant going forward. Bryant at less money, shorter term > Machado + prospects.

Also, the Cubs aren’t trading Bryant, so nothing to see here.


His angle is actually paying Machado at 26 v Bryant similar or more money at 29, without ruling out doing both, and not trading Bryant


I'm reading it the way Bull did. That he's saying you sign Machado, who is younger and his deal will end sooner than what will be a 29 year old Bryant when the time comes, and Machado would then come with some of the "best prospects in baseball," meaning through trading KB.

No?

That’s exactly how I read it
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Hm, re-reading it does seem like Bryant being traded would be the catalyst. Into the fodder pile it was already in anyway
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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:38 pm

In this scenario, I'd rather sign Bryce Harper for the same type of deal and team him with KB for three years and get the single draft pick for Bryant if he leaves.

Heck, worst case, team them together for two seasons and trade KB for a lesser prospect package than you'd get now, but still a solid one.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread - "On wrongs swift vengeance waits..."

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:26 am

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:In this scenario, I'd rather sign Bryce Harper for the same type of deal and team him with KB for three years and get the single draft pick for Bryant if he leaves.

Heck, worst case, team them together for two seasons and trade KB for a lesser prospect package than you'd get now, but still a solid one.

Yeah this is my clear preferred route and makes us the best team possible for the next 2-3 years.
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