Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:57 am

CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Aflac still confuses the hell out of me. It sounds like a step up from a JG Wentworth-type deal, I guess.

It's insurance for having insurance (covers deductibles, basically). AFLAC was more relevant when pre-existing conditions were a thing, but they refused to ensure my mom because she had cancer. So, long story short horsefeathers AFLAC, the duck, BCBS, UHC, Humana, Tricare, and all other insurance companies. They all play stupid horsefeathering games with people's lives and because they own most state legislatures its all perfectly legal.

What's wrong with Tricare?
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby mul21 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:43 pm

I just changed jobs and I went from a high deductible plan with an HSA to a standard plan with copays. In total, after figuring in what I was paying into the HSA, I’m now paying $20 per month than I was per paycheck before. I’m working for a large pharmaceutical company and if I can get one of their products as a prescription, it’s 100% covered. I apparently had awful insurance at my last 2 jobs and had no idea how much better it could be.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:47 pm

$20 a month or $20 more a month for better insurance?
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Bluescale » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:04 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:$20 a month or $20 more a month for better insurance?


Assuming he used to get paid twice monthly, he's paying $20 more for a full month than he was in half a month. For example, if he's paying $200 a month right now, he was paying $180 2x a month previously.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:46 am

Bluescale wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:$20 a month or $20 more a month for better insurance?


Assuming he used to get paid twice monthly, he's paying $20 more for a full month than he was in half a month. For example, if he's paying $200 a month right now, he was paying $180 2x a month previously.

Ah I was confused at that before too.

This might just be my HDHP/HSA Fandom speaking, but I'm not sure factoring in payments made towards the HSA make sense as far as factoring in the net cost difference. Obviously a lot depends on how you use your insurance, but personally if I'm roughly net the same cash out on HDHP premiums + HSA contributions I am building and growing value in the HSA so I'm ending up ahead. But I'm not using my insurance a lot either regularly (and the worst case OOP Max ends up about the same) . Someone in that middle ground usage is most likely boned by the HDHP/HSA. Though I'd be curious if that was his only option before rather than a standard low deductible/high premium PPO. For some people that's obviously just a better plan though.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Bluescale » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:18 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:This might just be my HDHP/HSA Fandom speaking, but I'm not sure factoring in payments made towards the HSA make sense as far as factoring in the net cost difference. Obviously a lot depends on how you use your insurance, but personally if I'm roughly net the same cash out on HDHP premiums + HSA contributions I am building and growing value in the HSA so I'm ending up ahead. But I'm not using my insurance a lot either regularly (and the worst case OOP Max ends up about the same) . Someone in that middle ground usage is most likely boned by the HDHP/HSA. Though I'd be curious if that was his only option before rather than a standard low deductible/high premium PPO. For some people that's obviously just a better plan though.


For those of us living in the US, we're all getting boned. Private medical insurance is a scam.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:26 am

HSAs are complete [expletive], much like 401ks. Available as options for people that want to use them? Fine. Basically making them cornerstones of health care plans and retirement plans? Get the horsefeathers out of here. We're doomed.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:13 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:HSAs are complete [expletive], much like 401ks. Available as options for people that want to use them? Fine. Basically making them cornerstones of health care plans and retirement plans? Get the horsefeathers out of here. We're doomed.

Cornerstones? Almost every employer still offers a traditional PPO. It's specifically there "for people that want them", although still not universally available.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:42 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:HSAs are complete [expletive], much like 401ks. Available as options for people that want to use them? Fine. Basically making them cornerstones of health care plans and retirement plans? Get the horsefeathers out of here. We're doomed.

Cornerstones? Almost every employer still offers a traditional PPO. It's specifically there "for people that want them", although still not universally available.


Tons of employers effectively limit the options and try to steer employees to [expletive] HSA plans. Quibble over the language all you want; way more people end up with HSAs as what they have to rely on more than they should have to. Yeah, it's not as bad as 401ks are at this point, but hey, everything has to start somewhere.

horsefeathers HSAs. I loathe mine.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:53 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:HSAs are complete [expletive], much like 401ks. Available as options for people that want to use them? Fine. Basically making them cornerstones of health care plans and retirement plans? Get the horsefeathers out of here. We're doomed.

Cornerstones? Almost every employer still offers a traditional PPO. It's specifically there "for people that want them", although still not universally available.


Tons of employers effectively limit the options and try to steer employees to [expletive] HSA plans. Quibble over the language all you want; way more people end up with HSAs as what they have to rely on more than they should have to. Yeah, it's not as bad as 401ks are at this point, but hey, everything has to start somewhere.

horsefeathers HSAs. I loathe mine.

I love mine. I'm not exactly what this steering looks like. What are the employers doing to steer employees to HSAs over traditional PPOs?

I generally hate the idea of employer sponsored Healthcare though. horsefeathers employers exerting do much control over health choices is stupid (even if one generally would still prefer private health care over universal coverage). The idea of getting it through your employer as the norm is dumb to me.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:05 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I love mine. I'm not exactly what this steering looks like. What are the employers doing to steer employees to HSAs over traditional PPOs?


Limiting the options of the types of plans offered, or picking the horsefeathers versions of the alternatives so that the HSA plans stick out more as the "better" option. It's definitely what my company does. They're constantly banging the HSA drum, and technically offer over half a dozen different plans, but all of the non-HSA ones are laughable garbage options.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:09 am

And they had us do a benefits survey recently which basically compared two options, and you had to rank on a scale which one was more important to you. They were basically all bull horsefeathers Sophie's Choice-style options, like, "is have a low deductible plan more important to you, or is your rate of paid time off accrual increasing at a better rate based on your time with the company more important?" horsefeathers, DO BOTH; YOU MAKE DOZENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR AND EMPLOY LESS THAN 100,000 PEOPLE.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby mul21 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:03 pm

Sorry, new job is keeping me busy. I was paying like $190 per paycheck before and now I'm paying $86 per paycheck. I was in that middle ground being spoken of. I never go to the doctor but my daughter has a variety of medications and doctor visits that were costing me an arm and a leg until my ex had her new husband add my daughter to his insurance, which basically cost nothing since his son was already on his. I also don't have the option of a HDHP/HSA at the new job. This insurance is absolutely terrific, especially considering prescriptions are 100% covered if I can get my employer's meds.

Also, the negotiated rates between companies BCBS vs UHC for example, are pretty amazing. I previously went from paying $50 per PT visit on UHC to paying $110 per visit with BCBS with identical coverage/deductibles.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:35 am

mul21 wrote:Sorry, new job is keeping me busy. I was paying like $190 per paycheck before and now I'm paying $86 per paycheck. I was in that middle ground being spoken of. I never go to the doctor but my daughter has a variety of medications and doctor visits that were costing me an arm and a leg until my ex had her new husband add my daughter to his insurance, which basically cost nothing since his son was already on his. I also don't have the option of a HDHP/HSA at the new job. This insurance is absolutely terrific, especially considering prescriptions are 100% covered if I can get my employer's meds.

Also, the negotiated rates between companies BCBS vs UHC for example, are pretty amazing. I previously went from paying $50 per PT visit on UHC to paying $110 per visit with BCBS with identical coverage/deductibles.

How is UHCs coverage? I've basically always had BCBS coverage and it's nice to basically never have to worry about in network vs out of network, but I've heard BCBS is more expensive..The "Cadillac of plans".. I'm sure due in large part to the vast coverage.

And that's kind of exactly my view on HSAs. They certainly aren't plans for everyone. Even with my family, I looked into whether I should add my wife to my plan to make a family plan once we had a kid, and even though it would have arguably been equal, based on how she uses her current coverage, she's probably still better off staying on her own coverage. I'm still a little unsure of what types of things employers are doing to incentive the HSAs that they are de facto the default, like Sammy is saying. If they put roughly the same gross money into the two options, it should just be more a matter of personal preference... So unless they're cutting back on what they contribute to PPOs?

Anyways I'm switching jobs in about 5 weeks. I got to negotiate with my current employer to cover my cobra while I have that gap, which is nice, but I have almost no idea what new plans I'm getting myself into (other than knowing they cover 70% and there are options) , but maybe I'll be ranting here soon.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby d_money » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:06 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
mul21 wrote:Sorry, new job is keeping me busy. I was paying like $190 per paycheck before and now I'm paying $86 per paycheck. I was in that middle ground being spoken of. I never go to the doctor but my daughter has a variety of medications and doctor visits that were costing me an arm and a leg until my ex had her new husband add my daughter to his insurance, which basically cost nothing since his son was already on his. I also don't have the option of a HDHP/HSA at the new job. This insurance is absolutely terrific, especially considering prescriptions are 100% covered if I can get my employer's meds.

Also, the negotiated rates between companies BCBS vs UHC for example, are pretty amazing. I previously went from paying $50 per PT visit on UHC to paying $110 per visit with BCBS with identical coverage/deductibles.

How is UHCs coverage? I've basically always had BCBS coverage and it's nice to basically never have to worry about in network vs out of network, but I've heard BCBS is more expensive..The "Cadillac of plans".. I'm sure due in large part to the vast coverage.

And that's kind of exactly my view on HSAs. They certainly aren't plans for everyone. Even with my family, I looked into whether I should add my wife to my plan to make a family plan once we had a kid, and even though it would have arguably been equal, based on how she uses her current coverage, she's probably still better off staying on her own coverage. I'm still a little unsure of what types of things employers are doing to incentive the HSAs that they are de facto the default, like Sammy is saying. If they put roughly the same gross money into the two options, it should just be more a matter of personal preference... So unless they're cutting back on what they contribute to PPOs?

Anyways I'm switching jobs in about 5 weeks. I got to negotiate with my current employer to cover my cobra while I have that gap, which is nice, but I have almost no idea what new plans I'm getting myself into (other than knowing they cover 70% and there are options) , but maybe I'll be ranting here soon.

At a high level, both plans should be similar between BCBS and UHC (ie if both plans are 90/70, or HDHP’s). The networks is where the main difference lies. Provider X may be in BCBS but not in UHC.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby mul21 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:33 pm

I live in the STL metro area, so finding care providers hasn’t ever been an issue and pretty much everywhere takes both BCBS and UHC. As for cost, like I said above, I’ve found UHC to have cheaper negotiated rates with providers than BCBS. I suppose that could have been a one off, but I suspect it’s not.

The big push behind the HDHP thing is that consumers will get more involved and actually search for cheaper options, which in the long run saves the company money because there’s less being paid out for care coverage.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:51 am

I had a UHC plan with my previous employer that was phenomenal. Low, low deductible, never any issues with doctors being in network or prescription coverage; I was really spoiled by how I didn't have to give that stuff a second thought. Used it in multiple states and it was always accepted and I rarely paid much of anything. When I saw my current employer also offered a UHC plan I was gonna be all over it, but it's some cheapie garbage package with terrible coverage that was nothing like what I had before.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby CubinNY » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:49 am

d_money wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
mul21 wrote:Sorry, new job is keeping me busy. I was paying like $190 per paycheck before and now I'm paying $86 per paycheck. I was in that middle ground being spoken of. I never go to the doctor but my daughter has a variety of medications and doctor visits that were costing me an arm and a leg until my ex had her new husband add my daughter to his insurance, which basically cost nothing since his son was already on his. I also don't have the option of a HDHP/HSA at the new job. This insurance is absolutely terrific, especially considering prescriptions are 100% covered if I can get my employer's meds.

Also, the negotiated rates between companies BCBS vs UHC for example, are pretty amazing. I previously went from paying $50 per PT visit on UHC to paying $110 per visit with BCBS with identical coverage/deductibles.

How is UHCs coverage? I've basically always had BCBS coverage and it's nice to basically never have to worry about in network vs out of network, but I've heard BCBS is more expensive..The "Cadillac of plans".. I'm sure due in large part to the vast coverage.

And that's kind of exactly my view on HSAs. They certainly aren't plans for everyone. Even with my family, I looked into whether I should add my wife to my plan to make a family plan once we had a kid, and even though it would have arguably been equal, based on how she uses her current coverage, she's probably still better off staying on her own coverage. I'm still a little unsure of what types of things employers are doing to incentive the HSAs that they are de facto the default, like Sammy is saying. If they put roughly the same gross money into the two options, it should just be more a matter of personal preference... So unless they're cutting back on what they contribute to PPOs?

Anyways I'm switching jobs in about 5 weeks. I got to negotiate with my current employer to cover my cobra while I have that gap, which is nice, but I have almost no idea what new plans I'm getting myself into (other than knowing they cover 70% and there are options) , but maybe I'll be ranting here soon.

At a high level, both plans should be similar between BCBS and UHC (ie if both plans are 90/70, or HDHP’s). The networks is where the main difference lies. Provider X may be in BCBS but not in UHC.

As a health care provider, I can tell you BCBS is terrible, but they're big and most providers are willing to work with them. UHC is by far the worst insurance company I've ever tried to work with, with the lowest reimbursement rates. Many providers do not take UHC or are out of network.
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Re: Health Insurance BULL horsefeathers

Postby CubinNY » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:21 pm

The CEO of BCBS in Michigan makes over 12 million dollars per year. BCBS association is supposed to be a not-for-profit group. In Alabama, the legislature made a special law in 2015 just for BCBSAL that their compensation for corporate officers can remain secret. They are the only non-profit that is allowed to do that in the sate.

https://www.al.com/news/2015/09/want_to ... ce_ex.html

The law was put in place largely as a response to this report from AL.com

https://www.al.com/news/2014/08/top_10_ ... cart_river
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