2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:06 pm

Tryptamine wrote:What does it cost to add Mancini and Hunter Harvey? Mancini is basically Castellanos, but cheaper and Harvey has closer stuff when healthy.

Mancini is so bad in the OF and starts costing really money the next 3 years through arbitration. He’d have to come really cheap to me because that’s a big risk to try and back yourself in the corner with that potential OF defense.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:12 pm

Bertz wrote:Yeah, Brett's having a mini meltdown on Twitter over this and I don't get it. Bundy when he threw 95 had promise and untapped potential. Bundy now that he throws 91-92 is just a dude. If we ended up with him I would have been fine with it, but he's not very different from other mediocre options like Julio Teheran or Gio Gonzalez. That's a guy you settle for in January not one you proactively acquire the first week of December.


I'm not a huge Bundy enthusiast, but he was a 3 win pitcher with a 92 mph average fastball in 2017. It's decreased from that point a bit, but I think there's room to think he can be that guy again. At a cost of 5-6 million and the equivalent of Mekkes/Maples in trade I can see the appeal.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Post Count Padder » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:24 pm

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None of these guys were top prospects and are all like a year or less removed from the draft.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:35 pm

He’s 31 and has been basically as good as Lester the last two years. I don’t get this.

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Tryptamine » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:35 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:What does it cost to add Mancini and Hunter Harvey? Mancini is basically Castellanos, but cheaper and Harvey has closer stuff when healthy.

Mancini is so bad in the OF and starts costing really money the next 3 years through arbitration. He’d have to come really cheap to me because that’s a big risk to try and back yourself in the corner with that potential OF defense.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you could probably land him for an Alzolay or less package. I can't imagine he would take any of Amaya, Davis,Nico or Marquez. Or were you thinking even cheaper?
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:40 pm

Tryptamine wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Tryptamine wrote:What does it cost to add Mancini and Hunter Harvey? Mancini is basically Castellanos, but cheaper and Harvey has closer stuff when healthy.

Mancini is so bad in the OF and starts costing really money the next 3 years through arbitration. He’d have to come really cheap to me because that’s a big risk to try and back yourself in the corner with that potential OF defense.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you could probably land him for an Alzolay or less package. I can't imagine he would take any of Amaya, Davis,Nico or Marquez. Or were you thinking even cheaper?

He’d need to be cheaper than that for me, honestly. I get why he would cost more but for the fit on the team I wouldn’t give up Adbert (who I think has more use to the team the next 2-3+ years). Doing something like Bote for him I guess I could see as a major league for major league swap. But I wouldn’t touch any of our top 8-12 prospects for him.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:58 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:He’s 31 and has been basically as good as Lester the last two years. I don’t get this.



So is this just happening because the CBA is up going into 2021 and it has to look like teams aren't driving prices down on players, but then it will go back to what it was the last few seasons? Or are things legit returning to normal?
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:03 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He’s 31 and has been basically as good as Lester the last two years. I don’t get this.



So is this just happening because the CBA is up going into 2021 and it has to look like teams aren't driving prices down on players, but then it will go back to what it was the last few seasons? Or are things legit returning to normal?

I think it’s just Nightengale being an idiot. Other than signings happening faster I still don’t see this offseason being all that different as the past few ones so far. Guys are ending up with about the money they should, ultimately. It’s just happening sooner, so far.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:07 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I haven't been able to kick the idea of piggybacking rotation spots out of my head(probably not surprising since I've liked it for years), so I'm going to indulge an offseason planned around it. The quick benefits:

- you avoid the 3rd time through the order penalty entirely, and can act quickly if a starter is losing it before then
- you can piggyback R/L and/or contrasting styles to prevent lineups being stacked to beat a particular pitcher's arsenal
- you lessen the likelihood of bullpen games because you're extremely likely to get 5-7 IP each time, which means the bullpen doesn't need a long reliever for long reliever's sake
- with the 3 batter minimum you're going to see more of a multi-inning reliever trend and this fits that need of one part of the piggyback overperforms(justifying a rotation spot) or underperforms(and slides into short relief).


Also a great way to develop a young possible stud starter like Luzardo probably...I'm fully on board both for multiple piggybacks and no long relief for the sake of long relief.

This version of the Cubs crying poor is probably the kind that appeals to me most - walk out with a top ML ready SP prospect, a young RHH glove first CF (big fan of pairing with Happ) to headline and sign high quality but low commit (1-2, maybe one with 3 years) FAs. Agree with all the names traded and brought back, all pretty much ideal returns. A's are a sneaky good Contreras match very similar to the Rays. Beane giving up one of the two LHSP prospects is the kind of controversial but really explainable move that is up his alley. Good second arm too. The FA signings are probably as much can be hoped for in quality...
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:08 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He’s 31 and has been basically as good as Lester the last two years. I don’t get this.



So is this just happening because the CBA is up going into 2021 and it has to look like teams aren't driving prices down on players, but then it will go back to what it was the last few seasons? Or are things legit returning to normal?

I think it’s just Nightengale being an idiot. Other than signings happening faster I still don’t see this offseason being all that different as the past few ones so far. Guys are ending up with about the money they should, ultimately. It’s just happening sooner, so far.


I guess I'm conflicted on that. I'm not so sure Wheeler would have been given that contract at any point during the last few offseasons. Or the Moose getting those years, etc. But I guess we will see when contracts for guys like Bum are determined. Because if he really does get $100 million, well, that for sure wouldn't have happened. Especially with a draft pick involved.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:16 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
So is this just happening because the CBA is up going into 2021 and it has to look like teams aren't driving prices down on players, but then it will go back to what it was the last few seasons? Or are things legit returning to normal?

I think it’s just Nightengale being an idiot. Other than signings happening faster I still don’t see this offseason being all that different as the past few ones so far. Guys are ending up with about the money they should, ultimately. It’s just happening sooner, so far.


I guess I'm conflicted on that. I'm not so sure Wheeler would have been given that contract at any point during the last few offseasons. Or the Moose getting those years, etc. But I guess we will see when contracts for guys like Bum are determined. Because if he really does get $100 million, well, that for sure wouldn't have happened. Especially with a draft pick involved.

Darvish, Jake and Corbin all got paid the previous 3 offseasons. Maybe missing a guy or two. I think Wheeler gets in that ballpark the last two offseason coming off the season he had. If Bumgarner gets 100+ then yeah I think things may be swinging back a little to at least be a showing of good faith to players leading to the CBA talks.

Moustakas is probably a bit of an outlier/indicator things may be changing but there seems to be more teams willing to buy this year and if I remember correctly his first FA year he turned down a decent offer from the Angels (who then signed Cozart) then he was left in the cold when nobody really wanted him/filled the spots in other ways and went back to the Royals.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:29 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:I think it’s just Nightengale being an idiot. Other than signings happening faster I still don’t see this offseason being all that different as the past few ones so far. Guys are ending up with about the money they should, ultimately. It’s just happening sooner, so far.


I guess I'm conflicted on that. I'm not so sure Wheeler would have been given that contract at any point during the last few offseasons. Or the Moose getting those years, etc. But I guess we will see when contracts for guys like Bum are determined. Because if he really does get $100 million, well, that for sure wouldn't have happened. Especially with a draft pick involved.

Darvish, Jake and Corbin all got paid the previous 3 offseasons. Maybe missing a guy or two. I think Wheeler gets in that ballpark the last two offseason coming off the season he had. If Bumgarner gets 100+ then yeah I think things may be swinging back a little to at least be a showing of good faith to players leading to the CBA talks.

Moustakas is probably a bit of an outlier/indicator things may be changing but there seems to be more teams willing to buy this year and if I remember correctly his first FA year he turned down a decent offer from the Angels (who then signed Cozart) then he was left in the cold when nobody really wanted him/filled the spots in other ways and went back to the Royals.


That's fair.

Although I would argue Yu got way less than people anticipated, which is why the Cubs were able to land him in the first place. Corbin was considered the best pitcher on the market and actually got less AAV than Wheeler, although did get one more year.

But I'm willing to go with you on this one at this point.
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Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:42 pm

Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:
I guess I'm conflicted on that. I'm not so sure Wheeler would have been given that contract at any point during the last few offseasons. Or the Moose getting those years, etc. But I guess we will see when contracts for guys like Bum are determined. Because if he really does get $100 million, well, that for sure wouldn't have happened. Especially with a draft pick involved.

Darvish, Jake and Corbin all got paid the previous 3 offseasons. Maybe missing a guy or two. I think Wheeler gets in that ballpark the last two offseason coming off the season he had. If Bumgarner gets 100+ then yeah I think things may be swinging back a little to at least be a showing of good faith to players leading to the CBA talks.

Moustakas is probably a bit of an outlier/indicator things may be changing but there seems to be more teams willing to buy this year and if I remember correctly his first FA year he turned down a decent offer from the Angels (who then signed Cozart) then he was left in the cold when nobody really wanted him/filled the spots in other ways and went back to the Royals.


That's fair.

Although I would argue Yu got way less than people anticipated, which is why the Cubs were able to land him in the first place. Corbin was considered the best pitcher on the market and actually got less AAV than Wheeler, although did get one more year.

But I'm willing to go with you on this one at this point.

I think the WS really had an affect on Yu’s value. But that offseason also saw Hosmer, Cain, JD Martinez, Jay Bruce, Reddick, Santana, etc get big deals or paid plenty that year. Wade also got a big one. Harper, Machado, Brantley, Happ, Pollock, Eovaldi, McCutchen, etc last year. Idk, there’s been big deals given out the last two years (even overpays). Just because things took until February/March doesn’t mean guys didn’t end up around where they should (or even got more).

I’m not defending owners here, the system needs fixes and they certainly could spend more. But the OMG COLLUSION nobody is getting paid (or is getting paid 20 cents on the dollar or whatever) narrative isn’t entirely true either.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:00 am

JMO the only way to know for sure the owners are colluding is by getting full HD or higher quality video of them, video that can be proven to have not been doctored or staged, gathered around a round table made of poor people baby bones specifically and individually (in human form with no signs of being a reptile) stating they are all present to collude. I know this doesn't add to the discussion just throwing it out there anyway.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Derwood » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:29 am

Cubswin11 wrote:No idea who this is but he’s got a blue checkmark



Angels were rumored to be frontrunners near the end of last season
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Derwood » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:30 am

Bertz wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:A 4 for 1 for Bundy seems like a lot, even if they’re just organizational filler types. Bundy is damaged goods.



Yeah, Brett's having a mini meltdown on Twitter over this and I don't get it. Bundy when he threw 95 had promise and untapped potential. Bundy now that he throws 91-92 is just a dude. If we ended up with him I would have been fine with it, but he's not very different from other mediocre options like Julio Teheran or Gio Gonzalez. That's a guy you settle for in January not one you proactively acquire the first week of December.



Brett also has a hard-on for Billy Hamilton, so his player evaluation leaves something to be desired
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby weis21 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:24 am

Derwood wrote:
Bertz wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:A 4 for 1 for Bundy seems like a lot, even if they’re just organizational filler types. Bundy is damaged goods.



Yeah, Brett's having a mini meltdown on Twitter over this and I don't get it. Bundy when he threw 95 had promise and untapped potential. Bundy now that he throws 91-92 is just a dude. If we ended up with him I would have been fine with it, but he's not very different from other mediocre options like Julio Teheran or Gio Gonzalez. That's a guy you settle for in January not one you proactively acquire the first week of December.



Brett also has a hard-on for Billy Hamilton, so his player evaluation leaves something to be desired

Come on. He’s stated every time he mentions Hamilton that he would be a late inning defense replacement (especially if they did something like move Heyward to center) and pinch runner. That’s it. A role in which he would be perfect for as he’s an excellent defender and obviously a threat on the base paths. He’s never opined for him as a starter or even a typical reserve.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:54 pm

Who the horsefeathers is Brett?
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:56 pm

weis21 wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Bertz wrote:
Yeah, Brett's having a mini meltdown on Twitter over this and I don't get it. Bundy when he threw 95 had promise and untapped potential. Bundy now that he throws 91-92 is just a dude. If we ended up with him I would have been fine with it, but he's not very different from other mediocre options like Julio Teheran or Gio Gonzalez. That's a guy you settle for in January not one you proactively acquire the first week of December.



Brett also has a hard-on for Billy Hamilton, so his player evaluation leaves something to be desired

Come on. He’s stated every time he mentions Hamilton that he would be a late inning defense replacement (especially if they did something like move Heyward to center) and pinch runner. That’s it. A role in which he would be perfect for as he’s an excellent defender and obviously a threat on the base paths. He’s never opined for him as a starter or even a typical reserve.

But he did so with an erection.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:00 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Who the horsefeathers is Brett?

A young Tim with more drive, and a beer soaked suit.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby UK » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:05 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:Who the horsefeathers is Brett?

A young Tim with more drive, and a beer soaked suit.


*Paging Modzilla*
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Post Count Padder » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:11 pm

The Mets and Astros are in agreement on a trade that will send outfielder Jake Marisnick from Houston to New York, MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first (via Twitter) reported that the two sides were close to a deal. Houston will receive a pair of minor leaguers in return for Marisnick, per SNY’s Andy Martino (Twitter link).
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Tryptamine » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:50 pm

I kind of want Tsutsugo to land with the WSox. Him in RF and Eloy in LF would be very entertaining.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:53 am

Bowden recommends a move for the Cubs during the winter meetings:

Trade outfielder Brennen Davis and right-handed pitcher Cory Abbott to the Royals in exchange for second baseman/outfielder Whit Merrifield. The Cubs are in dire need of a leadoff hitter and Merrifield could fit in nicely. Merrifield, 30, is coming off a 4.0 WAR and 112 OPS+ season that included 16 home runs, 20 stolen bases and an OBP of .348.


I'd be pissed, though I'm sure it would please some people. I just have a feeling Merrifield is already declining and could collapse sooner than later.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:28 am

Ralph is a horsefeathering moron
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