Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:26 pm

rawaction wrote:The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

As bad as Mitch has been, I'm not sure how many unquestionable upgradres there are. I think the likes of Mariota, Winston, Dalton, and Keenum would all be coming into something of a competition, even if they were lined up with starters on day 1 of training camp. Bridgewater would probably be the only realistic one of available FA. Obviously no rookie would either.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:45 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:Nagy leaves a lot to be desired but I don't see why he can't improve at the job.

Bad QB, bad offensive line and impactless running backs are a tough thing to succeed with. People criticize them for not running up the middle enough when they can't gain a yard to save their lives.

Obviously he has capacity to improve, but is it "improve as a play caller or bust"? Could he just give up the part and be a successful head coach still?

Going back to his short stint calling plays in KC theres a pretty established history of questioning his play calling acumen. It's enough to sink him by next year at this point if he doesn't show that improvement quickly.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:51 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
rawaction wrote: Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.


The Bears were a real contender last year.


True, but they didn't really contend...by winning a playoff game.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:56 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
rawaction wrote:The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.


The 2018 Bears had too much talent to tank. The 2020 Bears? Eh.

I generally don't believe in intentional tanking. If you're bad enough to need it, it takes care of itself. The Bears have a pretty good chance of taking care of it themselves.


Even with the most abysmal offense in the league, the Bears are 4-6 with back-to-back games coming up against inferior teams. The 2020 Bears won't be much worse than the 2019 Bears talent-wise, and almost certainly would be better at QB by either Mitch improving or simply having more or better viable options.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:10 am

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
rawaction wrote:The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.


I'm not sure what your conclusion is, keep Mitch or ditch mitch? I think unless you are in love with a QB that drops to you in the second round this draft, you have to use those picks to revamp the o-line.Even if Mitch continues to tank you at least have the building blocks to surround the QB who takes over after Mitch leaves, HC and GM be damned. Reaching for a QB in this draft would be a huge mistake.


I think you have to ditch Mitch. While I don't think he would be as bad next year as he's been this year, he's definitely not the answer. Best case is a 2018 repeat where he figures out how to use his legs again. But I think he's lost the support of his teammates. They obviously won't say anything publicly, but you can see the body language on the field. Lackluster effort for high throws, stopping on routes when he misses them flash open, nobody moving down the field when he scrambles out of a pocket that he could have stood in. Nagy clearly can't do what he wants with the offense, and he's getting flack from the press and fans about his offense and playcalling. I just don't see Nagy being very willing to go into 2020 with his future tied to a QB that he has to dumb down his playbook for. Because after all, if Trubisky is here again and the offense struggles again with a half-filled play sheet....the offensive minded head coach is going to certainly take a lot of the heat for not having a good offense and not developing a talented QB.

I don't think Pace can go to ownership after 2 bad years and say, "Hey, I built up the rest of the team, let me get 1 more shot at QB" when the QB he picked is the reason for 2 bad years. And i don't think Nagy has been good enough to survive a GM change.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:11 am

The 2020 Bears will almost certainly be less talented, because life is a decaying march to death and everyone in the NFL just gets more beat up and bad the more football they play. You need a steady flow of fresh, talented bodies that they can't provide because of their missing draft picks, and if you bring in a QB who is definitely better than Trubisky you're going to have to weaken the starters at several other positions by either cutting guys or signing equal replacements for your UFAs.

But don't mind me, I'm just doom bonering.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:36 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:The 2020 Bears will almost certainly be less talented, because life is a decaying march to death and everyone in the NFL just gets more beat up and bad the more football they play. You need a steady flow of fresh, talented bodies that they can't provide because of their missing draft picks, and if you bring in a QB who is definitely better than Trubisky you're going to have to weaken the starters at several other positions by either cutting guys or signing equal replacements for your UFAs.

But don't mind me, I'm just doom bonering.

While the Bears are far from an enviable position, the NFL is weird enough and there is enough talent still that a major rebuild seems silly. They're gonna have to role a few dice in areas, but even good teams are often patchworking solutions somewhere. They just need to identify a better glue to hold their fraying patches together. Also they have to hope guys like Leno and Burton are more "fluky bad season" than they are "stick a fork in them"
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:41 am

rawaction wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
rawaction wrote:The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.


I'm not sure what your conclusion is, keep Mitch or ditch mitch? I think unless you are in love with a QB that drops to you in the second round this draft, you have to use those picks to revamp the o-line.Even if Mitch continues to tank you at least have the building blocks to surround the QB who takes over after Mitch leaves, HC and GM be damned. Reaching for a QB in this draft would be a huge mistake.


I think you have to ditch Mitch. While I don't think he would be as bad next year as he's been this year, he's definitely not the answer. Best case is a 2018 repeat where he figures out how to use his legs again. But I think he's lost the support of his teammates. They obviously won't say anything publicly, but you can see the body language on the field. Lackluster effort for high throws, stopping on routes when he misses them flash open, nobody moving down the field when he scrambles out of a pocket that he could have stood in. Nagy clearly can't do what he wants with the offense, and he's getting flack from the press and fans about his offense and playcalling. I just don't see Nagy being very willing to go into 2020 with his future tied to a QB that he has to dumb down his playbook for. Because after all, if Trubisky is here again and the offense struggles again with a half-filled play sheet....the offensive minded head coach is going to certainly take a lot of the heat for not having a good offense and not developing a talented QB.

I don't think Pace can go to ownership after 2 bad years and say, "Hey, I built up the rest of the team, let me get 1 more shot at QB" when the QB he picked is the reason for 2 bad years. And i don't think Nagy has been good enough to survive a GM change.

So if the plan is to ditch Mitch do you think there is any trade market for him? I'm not sure why this is, but according to OTC, he is cap neutral as a cut (all dead money), but would actually garner about 4M cap savings as a trade, at least.

If there is literally no cap benefit to cutting him it seems highly unlikely that they'll just cut lose in March. So he'd be in camp and presumably still good enough to not get beat out by 2-3 other guys and sticking around as the backup and its the same cap effect to cut or keep.
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Re: Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:14 am

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:The 2020 Bears will almost certainly be less talented, because life is a decaying march to death and everyone in the NFL just gets more beat up and bad the more football they play. You need a steady flow of fresh, talented bodies that they can't provide because of their missing draft picks, and if you bring in a QB who is definitely better than Trubisky you're going to have to weaken the starters at several other positions by either cutting guys or signing equal replacements for your UFAs.

But don't mind me, I'm just doom bonering.

While the Bears are far from an enviable position, the NFL is weird enough and there is enough talent still that a major rebuild seems silly. They're gonna have to role a few dice in areas, but even good teams are often patchworking solutions somewhere. They just need to identify a better glue to hold their fraying patches together. Also they have to hope guys like Leno and Burton are more "fluky bad season" than they are "stick a fork in them"

'
I generally don't believe in rebuilds. I believe that if you're bad enough to need one, you're bad enough to try your best and fail anyway, it'll work out on its own. I think the Bears are gonna try their best in 2020 and fail miserably. No harm in trying, though, as long as you don't let Pace go crazy trading picks again.
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