Star Wars Thread

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Geech
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Geech » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:09 pm

Bunts Lick Butts wrote:Maybe Luke is calling to them?


That's an interesting idea. I think I like that possibility a little better.
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:41 pm

Random thought: kinda wishing we hadn't seen Kylo's face yet. There really isn't as much mystery to him anymore. I mean, there is obviously some mystery as to how he was seduced and all that, but I wish we hadn't seen what was below the mask just yet. Also, after watching it again, it just seems strange that his face reveal was when he was interrogating Rey. He was trying to intimidate her, so it was kinda silly that he would take his mask off for her. He should have only removed it when ordered to by his father. That would have been really impactful.
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Derwood » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:11 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Random thought: kinda wishing we hadn't seen Kylo's face yet. There really isn't as much mystery to him anymore. I mean, there is obviously some mystery as to how he was seduced and all that, but I wish we hadn't seen what was below the mask just yet. Also, after watching it again, it just seems strange that his face reveal was when he was interrogating Rey. He was trying to intimidate her, so it was kinda silly that he would take his mask off for her. He should have only removed it when ordered to by his father. That would have been really impactful.


I think he thought it was a power move. She challenged him and he didn't back down from the challenge

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby seanimal » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:28 pm

Geech wrote:
Bunts Lick Butts wrote:Maybe Luke is calling to them?


That's an interesting idea. I think I like that possibility a little better.


hmm
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby seanimal » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:28 pm

Geech wrote:
Bunts Lick Butts wrote:Maybe Luke is calling to them?


That's an interesting idea. I think I like that possibility a little better.


hmm
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby seanimal » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:28 pm

Geech wrote:
Bunts Lick Butts wrote:Maybe Luke is calling to them?


That's an interesting idea. I think I like that possibility a little better.
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:44 pm

Derwood wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Why is he going around massacring innocents to find a map if not to find Luke?


Spoiler: show
He's trying to find Luke, but that doesn't mean he wants to kill him. Maybe he wants to "finish what Vader started", ie turn Luke to the Dark Side (for Snoke)


From the opening crawl:

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Derwood » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:45 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Derwood wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Why is he going around massacring innocents to find a map if not to find Luke?


Spoiler: show
He's trying to find Luke, but that doesn't mean he wants to kill him. Maybe he wants to "finish what Vader started", ie turn Luke to the Dark Side (for Snoke)


From the opening crawl:

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.


Oh, sure, FACTS


But that would be really boring as there's almost no chance that the First Order succeeds in destroying him

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Careless » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:49 pm

seanimal wrote: third, jedi's don't have kids. except for anakin, a terrible jedi whose selfishness and mental fragility led him to embrace the dark side. i mean seriously, why does everyone seems to think that every character in this movie is the child of some other character. "hrmm maybe fin is lando calrissian's kid because black?" no

midichlorians seem to be an inherited trait, so the Jedi not breeding would be constantly selecting against force powers. There wouldn't be any Jedi left after thousands of years.

So, can we erase them from canon?
We are doomed.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Careless » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:49 pm

seanimal wrote: third, jedi's don't have kids. except for anakin, a terrible jedi whose selfishness and mental fragility led him to embrace the dark side. i mean seriously, why does everyone seems to think that every character in this movie is the child of some other character. "hrmm maybe fin is lando calrissian's kid because black?" no

midichlorians seem to be an inherited trait, so the Jedi not breeding would be constantly selecting against force powers. There wouldn't be any Jedi left after thousands of years.

So, can we erase them from canon?
We are doomed.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Careless » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:50 pm

seanimal wrote: third, jedi's don't have kids. except for anakin, a terrible jedi whose selfishness and mental fragility led him to embrace the dark side. i mean seriously, why does everyone seems to think that every character in this movie is the child of some other character. "hrmm maybe fin is lando calrissian's kid because black?" no

midichlorians seem to be an inherited trait, so the Jedi not breeding would be constantly selecting against force powers. There wouldn't be any Jedi left after thousands of years.

So, can we erase them from canon?
We are doomed.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Careless » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:40 pm

seanimal wrote: third, jedi's don't have kids. except for anakin, a terrible jedi whose selfishness and mental fragility led him to embrace the dark side. i mean seriously, why does everyone seems to think that every character in this movie is the child of some other character. "hrmm maybe fin is lando calrissian's kid because black?" no

midichlorians seem to be an inherited trait, so the Jedi not breeding would be constantly selecting against force powers. There wouldn't be any Jedi left after thousands of years.

So, can we erase them from canon?

bukie wrote:"He wasn't what I thought the villain should be" and "He wasn't Darth Vader" is not a valid criticism.

He could barely defeat a non-Force user in a light saber duel.
seanimal wrote:
Abbc3 Spoiler Show

Anakin, Luke, Leia (not a Jedi, but capable of being one), her son
Derwood wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Why is he going around massacring innocents to find a map if not to find Luke?


Spoiler: show
He's trying to find Luke, but that doesn't mean he wants to kill him. Maybe he wants to "finish what Vader started", ie turn Luke to the Dark Side (for Snoke)
He’d have to know that Luke would wipe the floor with his pathetic ass.
XZero77 wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Ryne Ween wrote:My problem with Kylo is that in one scene he stops a blaster bolt in midair and holds it there but he can't easily dispatch a random stormtrooper in a lightsaber fight. That's just stupid.


He was injured. He'd been shot by Chewie shortly before, during the scene with Han.


Not only was he seriously wounded, but he was quite discomposed emotionally.
badass sith lord Is to weepy over killing his father to force choke a dude to death
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby XZero77 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:04 pm

Again, Kylo Ren is not a Sith, much less a Sith lord (Abrams said it himself, fairly definitively). He's an apprentice to a figure who may or may not be a Sith. The popular line of thinking is that the Sith line died out with Vader and Palpatine, though that seems questionable.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Careless » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:18 pm

seanimal wrote: third, jedi's don't have kids. except for anakin, a terrible jedi whose selfishness and mental fragility led him to embrace the dark side. i mean seriously, why does everyone seems to think that every character in this movie is the child of some other character. "hrmm maybe fin is lando calrissian's kid because black?" no

midichlorians seem to be an inherited trait, so the Jedi not breeding would be constantly selecting against force powers. There wouldn't be any Jedi left after thousands of years.

So, can we erase them from canon?

bukie wrote:"He wasn't what I thought the villain should be" and "He wasn't Darth Vader" is not a valid criticism.

He could barely defeat a non-Force user in a light saber duel.
seanimal wrote:
Abbc3 Spoiler Show

Anakin, Luke, Leia (not a Jedi, but capable of being one), her son
Derwood wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Why is he going around massacring innocents to find a map if not to find Luke?


Spoiler: show
He's trying to find Luke, but that doesn't mean he wants to kill him. Maybe he wants to "finish what Vader started", ie turn Luke to the Dark Side (for Snoke)
He’d have to know that Luke would wipe the floor with his pathetic ass.
XZero77 wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Ryne Ween wrote:My problem with Kylo is that in one scene he stops a blaster bolt in midair and holds it there but he can't easily dispatch a random stormtrooper in a lightsaber fight. That's just stupid.


He was injured. He'd been shot by Chewie shortly before, during the scene with Han.


Not only was he seriously wounded, but he was quite discomposed emotionally.
badass sith lord Is to weepy over killing his father to force choke a dude to death
CoolHandLuke wrote:Another thing to consider, regarding Kylo Ren's skill with a lightsaber, is that he probably doesn't really have anybody to practice with to keep his skills honed. And he was ostensibly trained by Luke, who knows how long ago, who himself was never formally trained at all as far as I know. Compared to the days of Bane, Dooku, Windu, etc, I'm thinking lightsabering skills throughout the universe are way down.

To me there are enough possible justifications that super force sensitive Rey beating Kylo Ren is plausible enough to have no effect on my enjoyment of the movie.
he could train with that Stormtrooper who had a wtf that could match a light saber
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Careless » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 pm

ok, so apparently things are being posted.
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby yanrslatr » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:29 am

Bunts Lick Butts wrote:
yanrslatr wrote:
XZero77 wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Ryne Ween wrote:My problem with Kylo is that in one scene he stops a blaster bolt in midair and holds it there but he can't easily dispatch a random stormtrooper in a lightsaber fight. That's just stupid.


He was injured. He'd been shot by Chewie shortly before, during the scene with Han.


Not only was he seriously wounded, but he was quite discomposed emotionally.


is that an excuse? "i'm sorry, i can't kill you right now b/c my emotions have got the best of me" is not an excuse a Sith ever used.


He's not a sigh so


Right. But he's dedicated his life to emulating Darth Vader, who was a badass (until his son was being electrocuted). He gave 7-year-old me nightmares forever. This is your bad guy?

I hope Finn turns out to be something special and Rey ends up the next Jedi Master or I'm always gonna struggle with this scene.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby XZero77 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:06 am

Kylo Ren =/= Darth Vader, and he's obviously not supposed to. Kylo Ren is more on the level of Anakin Skywalker in Episode III, but less well trained. It seems like people are looking for too much symmetry here, expecting Kylo to be a fully formed villain as Vader (who ostensibly had a couple decades more dark side training than Kylo Ren) was in Episode IV. It's pretty clear that is not what Abrams & Co. were going for with the character.

It seems they want to develop him over the course of the three films. By and large, Vader was a static character from the beginning of episode IV up until the latter stages of Episode VI. He was much more pre-formed and advanced than Kylo Ren is supposed to be. It's not like he was this cool badass for the whole movie and then was inexplicably unable to kill Rey at the end. He was gradually coming unglued almost from the outset. Also remember, he didn't really want to kill Rey, either. He still needed her.

There is a theory floating around that Rey may have been one of Luke's trainees, prior to his abandoning his students and bugging out, but she can't or was made unable to remember. I don't necessarily believe this, but it would partially explain how she gets a grip on her powers so quickly. I guess we'll have to wait until 2017 to get more answers.

But as far as implausibility goes, the last fight isn't even the thing I find least plausible in the film. I found Rey's instantaneous ability to pilot the Millennium Falcon and outmaneuver trained Tie Fighter pilots less believable.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Banedon » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:23 am

Geech wrote:Saw the film for a second time today. When Kylo Ren was interrogating Rey, he said something along the lines of "When you try to sleep at night, you imagine an ocean. I see it, too, with the island." Do you guys think he was referring to Luke's island at the end of the movie? Is it possible Rey has seen it and has vague memories of it?


Definitely was referring to that...I think it was more about her having a vision of it...possibly thanks to Luke's lightsaber, than a memory.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Banedon » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:25 am

OleMissCub wrote:Random thought: kinda wishing we hadn't seen Kylo's face yet. There really isn't as much mystery to him anymore. I mean, there is obviously some mystery as to how he was seduced and all that, but I wish we hadn't seen what was below the mask just yet. Also, after watching it again, it just seems strange that his face reveal was when he was interrogating Rey. He was trying to intimidate her, so it was kinda silly that he would take his mask off for her. He should have only removed it when ordered to by his father. That would have been really impactful.


As I've said previously, him taking it off for Rey implies to me that he knows her or is at least aware of some relationship to her.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Banedon » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:03 am

Another Rey theory.

She's not a Skywalker, she's a survivor of the group of jedi that Luke was training. It would explain some of her quick utilization of jedi skills if it was something that was "coming back" to her, rather than learning the first time. Even better, what if a conflicted Kylo actually spared her when destroying Luke's jedi? It'd explain why he got so angry when hearing about a "girl" that was with Finn and BB8. It'd explain why he took off his mask and was so emotional during the scene where he was supposed to be getting the map from her.

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Abe Frohman » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:01 pm

Banedon wrote:Another Rey theory.

She's not a Skywalker, she's a survivor of the group of jedi that Luke was training. It would explain some of her quick utilization of jedi skills if it was something that was "coming back" to her, rather than learning the first time. Even better, what if a conflicted Kylo actually spared her when destroying Luke's jedi? It'd explain why he got so angry when hearing about a "girl" that was with Finn and BB8. It'd explain why he took off his mask and was so emotional during the scene where he was supposed to be getting the map from her.


I disagree - she is obviously a Skywalker (either Luke or Leia's). When Maz quoted the line of Anakin, Luke, and now Rey that the Lightsaber was calling to - I think that made things a bit transparent. It's still a question who her parents are, but I'm guessing Han and Leia.

Kylo didn't kill her because he was following Snoke's orders to bring her to him, if the force really was with her (which she demonstrated it certainly was in the last duel).

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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby seanimal » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:15 pm

seanimal wrote:
Derwood wrote:WOAH STAR WARS


precisely

i've only seen it the one time (so far) so i'm a little cloudy on when exactly this becomes clear, but it's in one of the expository dialogue scenes i think. i actually questioned that particular point as a connect-the-dots assumption on my part, but a google search turns up quite a few references to it being fact


shoulda put the [fakespoil] tags on this as i'm now like 99.9999% sure this isn't actually true. i'm guessing i probably just co-opted this as i read through various reactions and whatnot which seem to make this assumption based on rey's "force vision" where the knights of ren are standing in the rain surrounded by bodies. when deconstructed, i'm not too confident in the assumption because we won't know until subsequent sequels whether or not that scene happens in the past or the future. but if it is luke's academy at the time of kylo's betrayal, then those likely are his fellow students
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:22 pm

I thought it was pretty much assumed that Rey was a former student. If I remember right (only saw it once so far) her powers only started to "unlock" after Ren's mind reading backfired. Like maybe it knocked something loose.
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby seanimal » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:28 pm

Abe Frohman wrote:
Banedon wrote:Another Rey theory.

She's not a Skywalker, she's a survivor of the group of jedi that Luke was training. It would explain some of her quick utilization of jedi skills if it was something that was "coming back" to her, rather than learning the first time. Even better, what if a conflicted Kylo actually spared her when destroying Luke's jedi? It'd explain why he got so angry when hearing about a "girl" that was with Finn and BB8. It'd explain why he took off his mask and was so emotional during the scene where he was supposed to be getting the map from her.


I disagree - she is obviously a Skywalker (either Luke or Leia's). When Maz quoted the line of Anakin, Luke, and now Rey that the Lightsaber was calling to - I think that made things a bit transparent. It's still a question who her parents are, but I'm guessing Han and Leia.

Kylo didn't kill her because he was following Snoke's orders to bring her to him, if the force really was with her (which she demonstrated it certainly was in the last duel).


except maz said "dear child, whoever you are waiting for on jakku, they are never coming back. but there is still someone who can: luke"

i think this quote implies that the only connection that rey has to luke is her strong force abilities, uniquely suiting her to bring luke out of exile. something she can't do if she's sitting on jakku trading spark plugs for mre's
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Re: Star Wars Thread

Postby seanimal » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:35 pm

Careless wrote:
seanimal wrote: third, jedi's don't have kids. except for anakin, a terrible jedi whose selfishness and mental fragility led him to embrace the dark side. i mean seriously, why does everyone seems to think that every character in this movie is the child of some other character. "hrmm maybe fin is lando calrissian's kid because black?" no

midichlorians seem to be an inherited trait, so the Jedi not breeding would be constantly selecting against force powers. There wouldn't be any Jedi left after thousands of years.

So, can we erase them from canon?


midichlorians are a life form, not a chromosome
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