CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:06 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:I do not believe that math would show that a wrigley field full of vaccinated people would inevitably lead to at least one death


We're not talking about one game. And having the stadium filled only with vaccinated people (and those people only interacting with other vaccinated people), again, isn't realistic/practical.

I mean, I feel like people are acting like I'm saying cancel the season, or have them play in front of empty seats again. I don't want or expect that at all. I just think that right now, at the star of the season, doing something like having the bleachers filled and operating at capacity would be a not good and VERY not necessary decision.


I'm not a fan of vaccine passporting either. It's unnecessarily complicated and it will be moot in a few months


Agreed. That's why I like the idea of just sweetening the pot; offer tax breaks for companies that offer promotions for vaccine proof, because that's just an optional incentive that doesn't actually prevent someone from getting something or going somewhere.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby squally1313 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:08 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Vaccination-wise? No, that's not true at all; right now it's trending about as well as can be expected. Yeah, there's a ceiling as to how many people are going to be willing to get it, but we're nowhere near that right now. There's still plenty of people who want it who simply can't due to lack of availability.



Disagree; we don't need to discourage one reckless behavior with other reckless behaviors.


I guess we might just disagree on how much we're going to be able to encourage safe behavior at this point. Either that or we're just grouping populations differently. The people who ignored lockdown guidance to the extent possible, to me, have a ton of overlap with those who are resistant to getting vaccinated. You aren't going to curb their reckless behavior. I think we both agree that come June, things are just going to be open, and there isn't going to be much anyone can do about it (and hopefully there isn't any need to). Entice those people to get the shots. The vaccines are good enough to minimize risk, we should show everyone that.


But this is all hinged on your hypothetical scenario about the bleachers being fully open for business. These people can't force that to happen, now or in June. I don't see how catering to their mindset right now, when we're well off from the relative ceiling we'll hit after all the people who want vaccines can get them, makes any sense, or how it would "entice" them to do anything but keep being horsefeathers heads.

Does that make sense? Again, there are a ton of people who want to and will get the vaccine when it becomes available to them, regardless of these hypothetical promotions we're talking about. No, it won't get us up to 70% or more of the population vaccinated, but it will almost certainly get us to at least half of the population vaccinated. We're only at about 20% at best right now; my hope is that we remain as cautious as we realistically can be until we have at least doubled the total amount of people vaccinated right now. THOSE numbers will be hit once the vaccines are available, so why don't we at least shoot for that as opposed to finding ways to jump the gun needlessly right now?


I'm just trying to think of things that we can be doing now. We're at 20% now, we'll be at 50%-60% in the next...6 weeks hopefully? That's regardless of what happens with restrictions, the numbers, etc. At that point you're going to have half the population given vaccines they have been told repeatedly are incredibly effective (because they are), and then the majority of the rest of population not being careful, not wanting the vaccine, etc. There's not a chance in hell we'll have any remaining restriction card to play to combat whatever is still going on. However it is, that's just how it's going to be.

For me, it's how to get from 50%-60% to 70%-80%. And the only thing I can think of is showing those people they can go back to their garbage way of life without curfews, crowd restrictions, public scrutiny, etc as soon as they can get a shot (with an implied threat that it may take longer than the summer for non-vaccinated people). Yes, there's a downside of delaying vaccines for the people who want to get the shots yesterday, and I'm aware my idea is contingent on distribution keeping up. But we need as many shots as possible between now and the summer. I think we'll have excess capacity/supply by June, and we need to meet it with found demand. A bunch of vaccine hesitant people sitting in their 20% capacity assigned non-bleacher seats, being told to wear their masks and when they can get beer/what bathroom they can go to, etc. looking out at a full bleacher section acting like it's 2019 is a worthwhile enticement.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:10 pm

Out here, the standards for getting into more permissive restriction tiers become easier as we hit different vaccination milestones among the most vulnerable (poor and minority) zip codes.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:24 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
I guess we might just disagree on how much we're going to be able to encourage safe behavior at this point. Either that or we're just grouping populations differently. The people who ignored lockdown guidance to the extent possible, to me, have a ton of overlap with those who are resistant to getting vaccinated. You aren't going to curb their reckless behavior. I think we both agree that come June, things are just going to be open, and there isn't going to be much anyone can do about it (and hopefully there isn't any need to). Entice those people to get the shots. The vaccines are good enough to minimize risk, we should show everyone that.


But this is all hinged on your hypothetical scenario about the bleachers being fully open for business. These people can't force that to happen, now or in June. I don't see how catering to their mindset right now, when we're well off from the relative ceiling we'll hit after all the people who want vaccines can get them, makes any sense, or how it would "entice" them to do anything but keep being horsefeathers heads.

Does that make sense? Again, there are a ton of people who want to and will get the vaccine when it becomes available to them, regardless of these hypothetical promotions we're talking about. No, it won't get us up to 70% or more of the population vaccinated, but it will almost certainly get us to at least half of the population vaccinated. We're only at about 20% at best right now; my hope is that we remain as cautious as we realistically can be until we have at least doubled the total amount of people vaccinated right now. THOSE numbers will be hit once the vaccines are available, so why don't we at least shoot for that as opposed to finding ways to jump the gun needlessly right now?


I'm just trying to think of things that we can be doing now. We're at 20% now, we'll be at 50%-60% in the next...6 weeks hopefully? That's regardless of what happens with restrictions, the numbers, etc. At that point you're going to have half the population given vaccines they have been told repeatedly are incredibly effective (because they are), and then the majority of the rest of population not being careful, not wanting the vaccine, etc. There's not a chance in hell we'll have any remaining restriction card to play to combat whatever is still going on. However it is, that's just how it's going to be.

For me, it's how to get from 50%-60% to 70%-80%. And the only thing I can think of is showing those people they can go back to their garbage way of life without curfews, crowd restrictions, public scrutiny, etc as soon as they can get a shot (with an implied threat that it may take longer than the summer for non-vaccinated people). Yes, there's a downside of delaying vaccines for the people who want to get the shots yesterday, and I'm aware my idea is contingent on distribution keeping up. But we need as many shots as possible between now and the summer. I think we'll have excess capacity/supply by June, and we need to meet it with found demand. A bunch of vaccine hesitant people sitting in their 20% capacity assigned non-bleacher seats, being told to wear their masks and when they can get beer/what bathroom they can go to, etc. looking out at a full bleacher section acting like it's 2019 is a worthwhile enticement.


I get what you're saying, but I think that does more damage in the long run than helping. I think we just have to accept that making the vaccines as available as possible as soon as possible is the only realistic best option, and we're going to hit that ceiling no matter what. If these people haven't been scared enough or convinced enough at this point, nothing is short of them actually getting sick themselves. They're just going to wait out not getting a vaccine, whether it's not getting it now or not getting it in the summer; it doesn't matter to them. They don't want to mask, distance, have anything closed, get tested, or get a vaccine; until they themselves or their very closest loved ones are having to go to the hospital, it's not real/worth it.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby squally1313 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:33 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
But this is all hinged on your hypothetical scenario about the bleachers being fully open for business. These people can't force that to happen, now or in June. I don't see how catering to their mindset right now, when we're well off from the relative ceiling we'll hit after all the people who want vaccines can get them, makes any sense, or how it would "entice" them to do anything but keep being horsefeathers heads.

Does that make sense? Again, there are a ton of people who want to and will get the vaccine when it becomes available to them, regardless of these hypothetical promotions we're talking about. No, it won't get us up to 70% or more of the population vaccinated, but it will almost certainly get us to at least half of the population vaccinated. We're only at about 20% at best right now; my hope is that we remain as cautious as we realistically can be until we have at least doubled the total amount of people vaccinated right now. THOSE numbers will be hit once the vaccines are available, so why don't we at least shoot for that as opposed to finding ways to jump the gun needlessly right now?


I'm just trying to think of things that we can be doing now. We're at 20% now, we'll be at 50%-60% in the next...6 weeks hopefully? That's regardless of what happens with restrictions, the numbers, etc. At that point you're going to have half the population given vaccines they have been told repeatedly are incredibly effective (because they are), and then the majority of the rest of population not being careful, not wanting the vaccine, etc. There's not a chance in hell we'll have any remaining restriction card to play to combat whatever is still going on. However it is, that's just how it's going to be.

For me, it's how to get from 50%-60% to 70%-80%. And the only thing I can think of is showing those people they can go back to their garbage way of life without curfews, crowd restrictions, public scrutiny, etc as soon as they can get a shot (with an implied threat that it may take longer than the summer for non-vaccinated people). Yes, there's a downside of delaying vaccines for the people who want to get the shots yesterday, and I'm aware my idea is contingent on distribution keeping up. But we need as many shots as possible between now and the summer. I think we'll have excess capacity/supply by June, and we need to meet it with found demand. A bunch of vaccine hesitant people sitting in their 20% capacity assigned non-bleacher seats, being told to wear their masks and when they can get beer/what bathroom they can go to, etc. looking out at a full bleacher section acting like it's 2019 is a worthwhile enticement.


I get what you're saying, but I think that does more damage in the long run than helping. I think we just have to accept that making the vaccines as available as possible as soon as possible is the only realistic best option, and we're going to hit that ceiling no matter what. If these people haven't been scared enough or convinced enough at this point, nothing is short of them actually getting sick themselves. They're just going to wait out not getting a vaccine, whether it's not getting it now or not getting it in the summer; it doesn't matter to them. They don't want to mask, distance, have anything closed, get tested, or get a vaccine; until they themselves or their very closest loved ones are having to go to the hospital, it's not real/worth it.


Yeah, understand where you're coming from too. For me, that group of people are ultimately just selfish. They aren't going to do anything anyone tells them to do, and everyone else can deal with the consequences. With the past restrictions, it was a blanket policy, and they did complained about it and did whatever they could within those rules. I see my idea as a way of showing them that, because of their decisions, other people can do something that they can't. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't. I don't think the risk is that high, but it isn't zero to your point.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:37 pm

They suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby CubinNY » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:00 pm

I'm all for the vaccine passport, but they're going to need a better system to stop fraud.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:42 pm

CubinNY wrote:I'm all for the vaccine passport, but they're going to need a better system to stop fraud.

I kind of feel like that's a big enough reason to just not even worry about it. Like the ticket agent at Wrigley is going to be the checkpoint for this?

Maybe for something really narrow like travel it's doable in part because a huge part of the population isn't effected anyways.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:54 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I'm all for the vaccine passport, but they're going to need a better system to stop fraud.

I kind of feel like that's a big enough reason to just not even worry about it. Like the ticket agent at Wrigley is going to be the checkpoint for this?

Maybe for something really narrow like travel it's doable in part because a huge part of the population isn't effected anyways.

What is the bleacher capacity? 4,000? Make 3,000 available for each of the games in that Pirates series in May. Ticket agents won't be the checkpoint, people will have tickets sent to them online with verification that only they can use. It's going to be another month before decent weather makes it a thing people are actually jealous of, and four weeks of people thirsting over the opportunity. Ticketing agencies have spent the past year figuring out logistics of getting various ticketing options into practice. There are no paper tickets to distribute.

At this point everybody who wants a vaccine can get one in April, just go searching for your state's reddest areas and appointments are there. Be done by end of April and you can be in the bleachers in early May. It's a perfectly reasonable vaccine program promotion.

As for your second point. A whole hell of a lot more people travel every day than attempt to attend a baseball game in the bleachers.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:57 pm

I just don't see how pre-emptively encouraging risky gatherings to MAYBE get some more people willing to get vaccinated...before we can even vaccinate all the people who actually want to be vaccinated...isn't completely ass-backwards.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:07 pm

the government should buy tickets to athletic events or outdoor concerts and give them to vaccinated people. youll get some of that hesitant 20 percent or so that way, and the teams/venues get a W
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:18 pm

big ball chunky time wrote:the government should buy tickets to athletic events or outdoor concerts and give them to vaccinated people. youll get some of that hesitant 20 percent or so that way, and the teams/venues get a W


Imagine the type of Boomer fest tickets we'd get mailed to us, you monster.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby bukie » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:21 pm

big ball chunky time wrote:the government should buy tickets to athletic events or outdoor concerts and give them to vaccinated people. youll get some of that hesitant 20 percent or so that way, and the teams/venues get a W


I could only imagine the response if the government bought up like 20% of the Super Bowl tickets for next year and offered chances to win to anyone that got a vaccination.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I just don't see how pre-emptively encouraging risky gatherings to MAYBE get some more people willing to get vaccinated...before we can even vaccinate all the people who actually want to be vaccinated...isn't completely ass-backwards.

Vaccinated people attending outdoor sporting events is not a particularly risky venture.

I'm talking about an early May target date, when we can hope on decent weather. Hell, push it back to the next homestand if you want. We can get everybody who wants to be vaccinated shots by then. You can already get appointments if you put some effort into it. We will absolutely be dealing with begging people to get shots in May. Whether that is the group that claims they are willing but want to wait or just the people on the fence, we will need those people to start filling the gaps created by the horsefeathers heals who will refuse.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:30 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I just don't see how pre-emptively encouraging risky gatherings to MAYBE get some more people willing to get vaccinated...before we can even vaccinate all the people who actually want to be vaccinated...isn't completely ass-backwards.

Vaccinated people attending outdoor sporting events is not a particularly risky venture.

I'm talking about an early May target date, when we can hope on decent weather. Hell, push it back to the next homestand if you want. We can get everybody who wants to be vaccinated shots by then. You can already get appointments if you put some effort into it. We will absolutely be dealing with begging people to get shots in May. Whether that is the group that claims they are willing but want to wait or just the people on the fence, we will need those people to start filling the gaps created by the horsefeathers heals who will refuse.


Dude, it's just not realistic or practical to have everyone in the ballpark (guests and employees), or even just the bleachers, to have had all of their vaccinations and be at least two weeks out from the last one for every single home game for more than a month.

I mean, look at it this way: look at the demographics of the people who are having the most trouble getting vaccinated in a city like Chicago. Now think about who does most of the work at a ballpark. Are baseball teams going to be granted a special exception for their stadium employees just so people who have had their vaccines can get special treatment? How is any of that possibly going to play as anything but a complete disaster?
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby UMFan83 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:33 pm

My wife got pricked by another man today and I couldn't be happier. Still waiting for a good opportunity to schedule mine
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:40 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I just don't see how pre-emptively encouraging risky gatherings to MAYBE get some more people willing to get vaccinated...before we can even vaccinate all the people who actually want to be vaccinated...isn't completely ass-backwards.

Vaccinated people attending outdoor sporting events is not a particularly risky venture.

I'm talking about an early May target date, when we can hope on decent weather. Hell, push it back to the next homestand if you want. We can get everybody who wants to be vaccinated shots by then. You can already get appointments if you put some effort into it. We will absolutely be dealing with begging people to get shots in May. Whether that is the group that claims they are willing but want to wait or just the people on the fence, we will need those people to start filling the gaps created by the horsefeathers heals who will refuse.


Dude, it's just not realistic or practical to have everyone in the ballpark (guests and employees), or even just the bleachers, to have had all of their vaccinations and be at least two weeks out from the last one for every single home game for more than a month.

I mean, look at it this way: look at the demographics of the people who are having the most trouble getting vaccinated in a city like Chicago. Now think about who does most of the work at a ballpark. Are baseball teams going to be granted a special exception for their stadium employees just so people who have had their vaccines can get special treatment? How is any of that possibly going to play as anything but a complete disaster?


A) Plenty of public facing companies are getting access to vaccines for employees and it will only get easier going forward.
B) I didn't say anything about the ballpark or a month.

I'm talking about making a special weekend where bleachers capacity will be raised considerately. The rest of the park stays whatever the capacity is, 20%? I don't know. You pick a weekend when you can reasonably expect good weather, that's going to be in either early May or late May. It's three games. You promote vaccine accessible higher capacity in the bleachers in good weather. It promotes getting vaccines.

In May we will be begging for ideas to promote getting the vaccine. We're flying through the ready willing and able population right now. We're getting to the "sure I'll do it, but maybe not right now" crowd.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:42 pm

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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:47 pm

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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:06 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I'm all for the vaccine passport, but they're going to need a better system to stop fraud.

I kind of feel like that's a big enough reason to just not even worry about it. Like the ticket agent at Wrigley is going to be the checkpoint for this?

Maybe for something really narrow like travel it's doable in part because a huge part of the population isn't effected anyways.

What is the bleacher capacity? 4,000? Make 3,000 available for each of the games in that Pirates series in May. Ticket agents won't be the checkpoint, people will have tickets sent to them online with verification that only they can use. It's going to be another month before decent weather makes it a thing people are actually jealous of, and four weeks of people thirsting over the opportunity. Ticketing agencies have spent the past year figuring out logistics of getting various ticketing options into practice. There are no paper tickets to distribute.

At this point everybody who wants a vaccine can get one in April, just go searching for your state's reddest areas and appointments are there. Be done by end of April and you can be in the bleachers in early May. It's a perfectly reasonable vaccine program promotion.

As for your second point. A whole hell of a lot more people travel every day than attempt to attend a baseball game in the bleachers.

I mean we're not just talking about 30 MLB parks for a vaccine passport. We're presumably talking about hundreds or thousands of large venue gatherings like concerts, theaters or whatever else.

And in current circumstances, no, travel does not represent a large volume of people. And even to the extent it might explode back to normal times in the next few months, there already exists a pretty sizable security/idenitification process to just incorporate in a vaccine passport (speaking strictly for airports). Certainly not gonna get roadside vaccine checkpoints.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:16 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I mean we're not just talking about 30 MLB parks for a vaccine passport. We're presumably talking about hundreds or thousands of large venue gatherings like concerts, theaters or whatever else.

And in current circumstances, no, travel does not represent a large volume of people. And even to the extent it might explode back to normal times in the next few months, there already exists a pretty sizable security/idenitification process to just incorporate in a vaccine passport (speaking strictly for airports). Certainly not gonna get roadside vaccine checkpoints.

I'm very specifically talking about the bleachers at wrigley field. Making it possible to attend a game in Pittsburgh or Miami with minimal restrictions isn't the same thing. Few other MLB venues have that sort of cordoned off area that regular joes actually want to attend en masse.

General attendance at large venues is going to stay minimal for the time being. But we absolutely should be promoting "vaccinated people can attend" events where possible in the near term. The Wrigley bleachers are an obvious place where that is the case.

Also over a million people are travelling by air per day right now. That's not a narrow portion of the public. That's a hell of a lot more people than will be attending baseball games on a daily basis for the foreseeable future.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:14 pm

Also over a million people are travelling by air per day right now. That's not a narrow portion of the public. That's a hell of a lot more people than will be attending baseball games on a daily basis for the foreseeable future.


Travelling by air is a necessary service/function that centers around a vehicle where the air is cycled out/filtered basically better than anywhere you're going to be on a daily basis. Your odds of catching COVID on a plane while wearing a mask and if the air system is working properly is, coincidentally, about 1 in a million.

Baseball is non-essential, and personally I doubt seeing people packed into what is not hypothetically only the Wrigley bleachers is going to convince any significant number of vaccine refusers to give in. There's no, IMO, good/pressing reason to make an exception to baseball opening up in any way besides reduced and distanced capacities for the time being.
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:41 pm

Have we seen a hospitalization rate increase yet with the cases rising?
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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:58 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Have we seen a hospitalization rate increase yet with the cases rising?


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Re: CDC Info on COVID-19 (Corona virus)

Postby Thurman Merman » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:05 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Have we seen a hospitalization rate increase yet with the cases rising?

In dupage, there has been a marginal uptick in hospitalizations, but definitely not quite tracking cases, which seem to have risen a decent amount the last two weeks.
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